13 Jul
2008
13 Jul
'08
10:39 a.m.
Walu,
My opinion is that all associations have their own strengths. They are all
unique. They all serve members in different ways. All leaders and members of
associations of ICT's subscribe to Kictanet. Could Kictanet be thought off
as a big virtual board room? With definite capacity to bring consensus to
all issues off ICT's in National development.
Kictanet is hard working, they work on Sunday too.. Some times in the middle
off the night.
Kevit Desai
-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
On Behalf Of John Walubengo
Sent: 12 July 2008 12:12
To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and
Regulationfor e-Commerce in Kenya
Hey all,
I have been out in some bush last 2days and just getting online now...
Must admit this thread got personal along the way. Lets try and focus on the
bigger picture which i thought was already alluded to a while back by Gilda,
Kisonzo amongst others. The big picture seemed to be that the IT
fraternity needs to re-organise for better presentation/engagement with
Government. Whether that is through KEPSA, KIF, CSK or any other body is a
question beyond an online dialogue. Maybe IDRC, DFID, Danida, KICTAnet or
any other bodies could convene a stakeholder session to kick-start/review
this process?
Saying that money was misappropriated or that someone is not Kenyan is
really not something to discuss on the KICTAnet forum (remember focus on
your core business and you excel).
So please lets agree to retire this thread and like all other discussions -
encourage the concerned parties and stakeholders to take and act on what is
deemed valuable and ignore what is not.
walu.
--- On Sat, 7/12/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>
> Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation
for e-Commerce in Kenya
> To: jwalu@yahoo.com
> Cc: "kictanet-lists" <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 10:50 AM
> Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
>
> I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on
> behalf of
> KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent
> dialogue.
>
> As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has
> welcomed anyone
> with questions to have these answered in person while at
> the same time
> providing as many answers as this media allows.
>
> I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and
> seriously
> dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly
> beg you to
> forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their
> misuse of
> this forum.
>
> As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see
> this forum
> turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that
> have
> characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
>
> I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from
> Alex, by
> Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other
> member who
> persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
>
> I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to
> desist from
> the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently
> witnessed.
> We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will
> not come
> through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Brian Munyao Longwe
> Chairman, KICTANET
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner"
> <marcelcwerner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Kictanet membership,
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable
> organization, duly
> > registered and maintaining a proper governance system
> with a
> > registered, paid-up membership base consisting of
> equally reputable
> > ICT associations and companies.
> >
> > KIF has done a number of useful things over the period
> of its
> > existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this
> week).
> >
> > Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to
> discredit our own
> > organization KIF and its members with insinuations and
> slander. This
> > is unacceptable.
> >
> > The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of
> Kictanet (nr 8). We
> > do not wish to be associated with an organization that
> lends itself
> > to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that
> can go on with
> > impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and
> other's
> > initiatives that are being implemented in the public
> interest (see
> > again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with
> doubtful
> > legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any
> membership
> > instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged
> nor have we
> > paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT
> Action
> > Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report
> (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/
> > ) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet.
> Personally I had
> > highlighted this membership problem already a year ago
> in the
> > interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid
> 2007 in the
> > evaluation study of its role and performance - I
> have to conclude to
> > day that membership management has never been
> addressed at Kictanet)
> > . We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of
> its appointed
> > "Members".
> >
> > We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a
> legitimate
> > constituency because there is need for a place of
> dialogue between
> > civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not
> playing such a
> > role today at all and creates a space for civil
> society to alienate
> > itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to
> clean up its house.
> >
> > We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in
> society, and we
> > need to reach out internationally. We don't have
> time for any
> > nonsense.
> >
> > Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
> >
> >
> > 2008/7/11 kevit desai
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>:
> > Alex,
> > Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established
> organization,
> > supported by its members who are also reputable and
> well established
> > organizations.
> > I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money
> from KIF.
> > Please
> > verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and
> conditions
> > since your
> > information is false.
> >
> > It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF
> and its
> > membership on
> > a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have
> extended an
> > invitation to
> > meet so that I can give further explanations. I am
> waiting to gauge
> > the
> > interest in this invitation.
> >
> > For now I close my participation.
> >
> > Kevit Desai
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gakuru , Alex
> [mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
> > To: kevit desai
> > Cc: kictanet-lists
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> e-Commerce in
> > Kenya
> >
> > Kevit;
> >
> > KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a
> certain business
> > fund.
> > I am curious centurion system hosts them under their
> CSR?
> >
> > Public forum to explain all dealings openly and
> transparently?.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > On 7/11/08, kevit desai
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Sylvester,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you
> would like further
> > > information on the following activities:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Historical & present- Impact
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular
> sectoral
> > discussions
> > > private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
> > >
> > > - Power up with ICT nation - wide
> awareness campaigns
> > (2004,
> > 2005,
> > > 2006)
> > >
> > > - E-Government - municipal councils
> > >
> > > - Open source software community
> > >
> > > - E-commerce legislation
> > >
> > > - Engineering student exhibition - 1997
> - 2008
> > >
> > > - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
> > >
> > > - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
> > >
> > > - National ICT Policy formulation (2004
> - 2006)
> > >
> > > - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
> > >
> > > - National innovation system
> > >
> > > - University Education Reforms Task
> Force (2006 - current)
> > >
> > > - PSDS
> > >
> > > - Africon 2009
> > >
> > > - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Associations:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - KEPSA
> > >
> > > - KIF
> > >
> > > - IEEE
> > >
> > > - Kenya software industry association
> > >
> > >
> > > Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This
> will allow me to
> > gauge
> > level
> > > of participation so as to plan the venue and also
> mobilize the
> > relevant
> > > leaders. If you are not on board, it would be
> great to have you on
> > board.
> > We
> > > need your support
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kevit Desai
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
> > >
> > > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
> > >
> > > Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
> > >
> > > Governor - KEPSA
> > >
> > > Director - KEPSA
> > >
> > > Director - Innovation Africa
> > >
> > > Director- Kenya ICT Board
> > >
> > > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
> > >
> > > BOA - AIESEC
> > >
> > > Member - National Strategy for University
> Education
> > >
> > > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable
> Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
> > >
> > > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
> > >
> > > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands
> -Nairobi
> > >
> > > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
> > >
> > > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA:
> 020 2049750
> > >
> > > Mobile: +254 722 517067
> > >
> > > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
> > >
> > > http://www.ieee.org
> > >
> > > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
> > >
> > > http://www.innovation-africa.net
> > >
> > > http://www.kepsa.or.ke
> > >
> > > http://www.powerup.co.ke
> > >
> > > http://www.aiesec.org
> > >
> > > http://www.africon2007.co.za
> > >
> > > http://www.kif.or.ke
> > >
> > > www.ict.go.ke
> > >
> > > http://www.globalcompact.org
> > >
> > > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > From:
> > >
> kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> >
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
>
> > ]
> > > On Behalf Of Brian Longwe
> > > Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57
> > > To: kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
> > >
> > > Cc: kictanet-lists
> > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
> Regulation for e-Commerce
> > in
> > Kenya
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Sylvester,
> > >
> > > Thank you so very much for highlighting yet
> another way in which
> > KICTANET
> > > is beneficial to the communicat at large. through
> KICTANET we all
> > learn so
> > > many good things that are happening in/around -
> and can then make
> > our own
> > > decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester
> Kisonzo
> > > <skisonzo@securenet.co.ke> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And where can I read (or get information) about
> all these new
> > names to me?
> > > KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined
> this group, I had
> > never
> > heard
> > > of them. So I wonder how all the
> 'stakeholders' have all along been
> > > involved.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:
> > >
> kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke]
> > > On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi
> > > Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47
> > > To: skisonzo@gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cc: kictanet-lists
> > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
> Regulation for e-Commerce
> > in
> > Kenya
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Waudo:
> > > I would like to pose a simple question:
> > >
> > > Why are these associations needed?
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga
> <emailsignet@mailcan.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the
> private sector
> > voice. The
> > > idea was to bring together EXISTING
> associations. Someone got
> > early wind
> > > that ICT was one of the identified sectors and
> decided to
> > register a NEW
> > > association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The
> real umbrella
> > body was
> > > actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT
> Board. Period. Why did
> > > someone find a pressing need to form a NEW
> association???
> > >
> > > Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT
> Board is on the
> > right
> > > track with all associations on board. We have to
> struggle to make
> > sure
> > > it stays that way. I do not understand why you
> seem to be
> > insisting on
> > > someone visiting KIF. What is the value
> addition? What can one
> > discover
> > > there??? Some say there are personal companies
> underneath and KIF
> > is the
> > > front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My
> interest is KEPSA
> > ICT
> > > Board not being equated with KIF.
> > > Waudo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian
> Munyao Longwe"
> > > <blongwe@gmail.com> said:
> > > > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF
> is KEPSAs "child"
> > i.e when
> > > > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF
> was established *by*
> > KEpsa
> > > > to act as the umbrella for ICT private
> sector.
> > > >
> > > > But I stand to be corrected if I'm
> getting my facts wrong. But
> > if I am
> > > > right then it *is* important for any
> critics to understand the
> > inner
> > > > workings by visiting.
> > > >
> > > > I am urging action instead of just talk.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo
> siganga" <emailsignet@mailcan.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the
> issue is an interest in the
> > > > > internal
> > > > > operations of KIF. We are talking
> governance in the context
> > of KEPSA/
> > > > > KIF
> > > > > relationship, something also of
> interest to the consumer
> > community.
> > > > > For
> > > > > your information last year all
> stakeholders held a meeting in
> > KEPSA
> > > > > and
> > > > > decided to open membership to all
> interested Private Sector
> > > > > associations. This was after it was
> observed that the hitherto
> > > > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant
> that the sector was not
> > adequately
> > > > > represented. Some people may have felt
> unhappy or even
> > insecure with
> > > > > this development. The problem is that
> my friend Kevit, being
> > the
> > KEPSA
> > > > > ICT director uses his position to
> constantly market KIF as if
> > it is a
> > > > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I
> would like to confirm that
> > the
> > > > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is
> vibrant." - as if implying the other
> > > > > associations are dead) He is often
> busy promoting "KIF
> > Positions"
> > > > > instead of "KEPSA Positions"
> including using KIF letterheads
> > at the
> > > > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the
> current ICT leadership in
> > KEPSA
> > > > > but I
> > > > > am hopeful things will change.
> > > > >
> > > > > Waudo
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300,
> "Brian Munyao Longwe"
> > > > > <blongwe@gmail.com> said:
> > > > >> Hi Alex,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would find it hard to imagine
> how much more Kevit can
> > explain to
> > > > >> you
> > > > >> about KIF.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit
> extend an invitation to
> > you (and
> > > > >> anyone else who might be
> interested/concerned) to attend the
> > next
> > KIF
> > > > >> meeting as an observer and
> see/feel the animal yourself.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Brian
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex
> Gakuru
> > <alex.gakuru@yahoo.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Kevit:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I am afraid you have not
> clarified well enough. I shall not
> > ask you
> > > > >>> further KEPSA questions
> although on your previous email you
> > told
> > > > >>> Waundo "As the director
> of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
> > > > >>> association to full membership
> of KEPSA." Apparently this now
> > > > >>> appears to have changed. And I
> doubt Waundo complained of
> > > > >>> "exclusion" not of
> his private self, rather of CSK? I could
> > be
> > wrong
> > > > >>> but he could clarify.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was
> announced that a "Local Software
> > Industry
> > > > >>> Association established"
> with, among others, "3.1
> > Objective, Market
> > > > >>> the local software industry to
> venture capitalists." (see
> > > > >>> announcement document
> attached) Was it registered under
> > Societies
> > > > >>> Act
> > > > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as
> Private (non-or-for-profit)
> > Company?
> > I
> > > > >>> found it strange it was formed
> 3 days to aour very
> > successful and
> > > > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also
> under your umbrella?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On the links you sent onlist:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> www.innovation-africa.net
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Domain Name:
> INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET
> > > > >>> Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
> > > > >>> Whois Server:
> whois.tucows.com
> > > > >>> Referral URL:
> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
> > > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET
> > > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET
> > > > >>> Status: redemptionPeriod
> > > > >>> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008
> > > > >>> Creation Date: 14-may-2007
> > > > >>> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I tried
> www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to
> >>
> > > www.kif.or.ke
> > > > >>> ( but today it now says
> "under construction") I gather
> > Centurion
> > > > >>> Systems offices accommodates
> KIF, is that correct?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> What I am trying is to
> understand is who speaks in the
> > background
> > > > >>> when when "KIF"
> issues "stakeholders" statements on an
> > issue,how
> > > > >>> representative or public
> service-oriented, good governance,
> > in
> > > > >>> trying to understand new and
> old associations' motives.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> With above information, it
> would clear doubts of public
> > policy
> > > > >>> participation illegitimacy or
> inappropriate public
> > procurement
> > > > >>> involvement(s). For the sake
> of our growing transparent ICTs
> > > > >>> abundantly rewarding
> enterprising citizens.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Alex
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit
> desai
> > > <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> From: kevit desai
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
> > > > >>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet]
> Legislation and Regulation for e-
> > Commerce
> > > > >>>> in Kenya
> > > > >>>> To: alex.gakuru@yahoo.com
> > > > >>>> Cc:
> "'kictanet-lists'"
> > > <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > > >>>> Date: Wednesday, July 9,
> 2008, 2:50 AM
> > > > >>>> Hi Alex,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I'm pleased to clarify
> as much as I can.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Kepsa has an open
> membership of PRIVATE sector industry and
> > > > >>>> market segment
> > > > >>>> associations in almost all
> economic sectors. Independence:
> > > > >>>> KEPSA decisions
> > > > >>>> are dependent on members
> wishes, and members are drawn from
> > > > >>>> the private
> > > > >>>> sector. In fact, NGO's
> are not approached for
> > > > >>>> membership in KEPSA,
> neither
> > > > >>>> are government bodies
> including parastatals. KIF follows
> > > > >>>> the same approach
> > > > >>>> for membership and
> decision-making. No NGO's and
> > > > >>>> government agencies are
> > > > >>>> member ofn KIF. However,
> KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR
> > > > >>>> BASIS with all
> > > > >>>> those stakeholders. Having
> said that, KEPSA and KIF have no
> > > > >>>> obligation to
> > > > >>>> offer service to non
> members.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Hopefully this helps to
> clarify. Do get in touch with Sam
> > > > >>>> Mwaura of KEPSA or
> > > > >>>> Marcel Werner of KIF.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Kevit
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>> From: Alex Gakuru
> [mailto:alex.gakuru@yahoo.com]
> > > > >>>> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45
> > > > >>>> To: kevit desai
> > > > >>>> Cc: kictanet-lists
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> Legislation and Regulation for
> > > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Kevit,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> How does KEPSA and KIF
> governance relate ensuring decisions
> > > > >>>> independence?
> > > > >>>> The political issue here
> may be monopolization to the
> > > > >>>> extent of clouding out
> > > > >>>> other actors thereby
> generating conflict. The Motive Theory
> > > > >>>> steps in.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> We investigate the effects
> of competition on subjects'
> > > > >>>> attitude towards
> > > > >>>> cooperation. Three groups
> face three economic environments
> > > > >>>> with different
> > > > >>>> degrees of competition,
> from a benchmark case with no
> > > > >>>> competition at all up
> > > > >>>> to a perfect competition
> case. Subjects contribute
> > > > >>>> generously to a public
> > > > >>>> project in the absence of
> competition, whereas they
> > > > >>>> contribute very little
> > > > >>>> in the presence of a
> maximum degree of competition. A
> > > > >>>> diminishing attitude
> > > > >>>> towards cooperation
> clearly emerges as the degree of
> > > > >>>> competition increases.
> > > > >>>> Therefore, if cooperation
> does enhance well-being, the
> > > > >>>> maximum degree of
> > > > >>>> competition may be not
> efficient.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > >
> >
>
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> > > > >>>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> react.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit
> desai
> > > > >>>>
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> From: kevit desai
> > > > >>>>
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com>
> > > > >>>>> Subject: Re:
> [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > > >>>>> To:
> alex.gakuru@yahoo.com
> > > > >>>>> Cc:
> secretariat@kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet ICT
> > > > >>>> Policy
> Discussions'"
> > > > >>>>
> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 8,
> 2008, 1:14 PM
> > > > >>>>> Hi Waudo,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> As the director of
> KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
> > > > >>>>> association to full
> > > > >>>>> membership of KEPSA.
> We look forward to a meaningful
> > > > >>>>> partnership.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Kevit Desai
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> _____
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga
> > > [mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com]
> > > > >>>>> Sent: 08 July 2008
> 13:55
> > > > >>>>> To: Kevit Desai
> > > > >>>>> Cc:
> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
> > > > >>>>> Discussions'
> > > > >>>>> Subject: Re:
> [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - I think
> one needs to be careful when
> > > > >>>> handling
> > > > >>>>> KEPSA and KIF at
> > > > >>>>> the same time. Do not
> use your foothold in KEPSA to
> > > > >>>> promote
> > > > >>>>> KIF at the
> > > > >>>>> expense of other
> associations. The explanation is very
> > > > >>>>> simple: KEPSA was
> > > > >>>>> formed as a focal
> point, a bringing together
> > > > >>>> characterised
> > > > >>>>> by INCLUSIVITY.
> > > > >>>>> KIF on the other hand
> is an independent association
> > > > >>>> and the
> > > > >>>>> nature of such
> > > > >>>>> an association is
> EXCLUSIVITY (through membership
> > > > >>>>> mechanism). I would
> like
> > > > >>>>> to see the promotion
> of more associations on the KEPSA
> > > > >>>> ICT
> > > > >>>>> Board, not just
> > > > >>>>> KIF. Please give us
> space.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Waudo
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008
> 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit
> > > > >>>> Desai"
> > > > >>>>>
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hi Alex,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> KEPSA
> (info@kepsa.or.ke): private sector policy body
> > > > >>>> with
> > > > >>>>> its own governance
> > > > >>>>> structure. Elected as
> a director in private capacity
> > > > >>>> and as
> > > > >>>>> KIF vice
> > > > >>>>> chairman.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> KIF
> (secretariat@kif.or.ke): membership-based industry
> > > > >>>>> association, member
> > > > >>>>> of KEPSA's ICT
> section. Elected as vice-chairman.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Centurion Systems Ltd:
> (www.centurionsystemsltd.com)
> > > > >>>>> private company,
> > > > >>>>> director, member of
> KIF.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Director of
> Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Chairperson IEEE -
> Kenya Section
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Chairperson -
> Engineering Students Exhibition
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Governor - KEPSA
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Director - KEPSA
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Director - Innovation
> Africa
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Director- Kenya ICT
> Board
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Vice Chairman - Kenya
> ICT Federation
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> BOA - AIESEC
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Member - National
> Strategy for University Education
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Co-ordinator - Growing
> Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP
> > > > >>>> Kenya
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> General Co-Chair -
> Africon 2009
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema
> Hse,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Raphta Rd
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> , Westlands -Nairobi
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800
> Nrb.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3
> Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020
> > > > >>>>> 2049750
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Mobile: +254 722
> 517067
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> http://www.ieee.org
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.innovation-africa.net
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> http://www.kepsa.or.ke
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.powerup.co.ke
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> http://www.aiesec.org
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.africon2007.co.za
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> http://www.kif.or.ke
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> htpp://www.ict.go.ke
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.globalcompact.org
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> -----Original
> Message-----
> > > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga
> > > [mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com]
> > > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07,
> 2008 9:40 PM
> > > > >>>>> To: kevit desai
> > > > >>>>> Cc:
> secretariat@kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy
> > > > >>>>> Discussions'
> > > > >>>>> Subject: RE:
> [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - Since
> you sent this message to KICTANET
> > > > >>>> I can
> > > > >>>>> answer it on
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> the same forum. I
> think the picture being painted
> > > > >>>> about a
> > > > >>>>> rosy situation
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> including
> "collaboration" is simply not
> > > > >>>> true. The
> > > > >>>>> reason to be frank is
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> that there a few in
> your KIF who do not want any other
> > > > >>>>> association to
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> have a voice in KEPSA
> or to interact with Government.
> > > > >>>> Could
> > > > >>>>> you as a
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> KEPSA director ensure
> that all interested associations
> > > > >>>>> including the
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> major ones not in KIF
> are allowed room to contribute
> > > > >>>> in
> > > > >>>>> KEPSA? It can be
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> sad if you mis-use
> your position in KEPSA only to
> > > > >>>> promote
> > > > >>>>> KIF and crack
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> down on those you feel
> are in the way.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Waudo
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008
> 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit
> > > > >>>> desai"
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> <kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com> said:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hi Walu,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Associations are
> welcome to be members of KEPSA.
> > > > >>>> I
> > > > >>>>> would like to confirm
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> that the KEPSA/KIF
> relationship is vibrant. We
> > > > >>>> would
> > > > >>>>> like to do a lot
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> more
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> and welcome more
> support.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We appreciate
> Waudo's contributions at our
> > > > >>>> last
> > > > >>>>> ministerial
> stakeholder
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> forum.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Collaboration is
> the way forward.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Kevit Desai
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> KEPSA Director
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> -----Original
> Message-----
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> From:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > >
> kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > >
> >
>
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > > >>>> ]
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Behalf Of waudo
> siganga
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Sent: 07 July 2008
> 19:02
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> To:
> kevit@centurionsystemsltd.com
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Cc:
> secretariat@kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy
> > > > >>>>> Discussions
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re:
> [kictanet] Legislation and
> > > > >>>> Regulation for
> > > > >>>>> e-Commerce in
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Kenya
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hi Walu - I am
> catching you loud and clear on
> > > > >>>> GPRS
> > > > >>>>> somewhere in the
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> bush. I did bring
> out the issue of regulating the
> > > > >>>> IT
> > > > >>>>> (or ICT) Profession
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> on this list a few
> months ago. But the rather
> > > > >>>>> unenthusiastic
> response I
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> got gave me the
> sense that possibly this was not
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>> correct list since
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> many of the
> subscribers appear just interested in
> > > > >>>> ICT
> > > > >>>>> Policy rather than
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> being actual IT
> Experts. Within the next two
> > > > >>>> weeks
> > > > >>>>> there will be another
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> list for
> professionals and you will be informed
> > > > >>>> (you
> > > > >>>>> have the
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> qualifications,
> don't you??). We are pushing
> > > > >>>> for a
> > > > >>>>> registration board
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> like thise done
> last yeaer for nutritionists and
> > > > >>>>> Procurement
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Practitioners.
> There is a lot of work going on
> > > > >>>>> unheralded. All we
> need
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> is a champion or
> chanpions in the right place.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Waudo
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008
> 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT),
> > > > >>>> "John
> > > > >>>>> Walubengo"
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> <jwalu@yahoo.com> said:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Marcel,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> It looks like
> quite some work has been
> > > > >>>> ongoing in
> > > > >>>>> this
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was
> > > > >>>>> restricted within KIF
> only?
> > > > >>>>> I
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> wonder if
> Computer Society of Kenya (CSK,
> > > > >>>> Waudo r
> > > > >>>>> u there?) or
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Information
> Security Audit & Control
> > > > >>>>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter)
> just to
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> mention some
> of the big IT Associations in
> > > > >>>> Kenya
> > > > >>>>> were involved. I beg
> to
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> be
> enlightened.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> This brings in
> an old question - who really
> > > > >>>>> represents the IT
> Profession
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> in Kenya?
> Shem has been on record as saying
> > > > >>>> that
> > > > >>>>> IT is the only
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> discipline
> where we seem to lack bodies with
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>> same authority as LSK
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> (Law Society
> of Kenya), IEK (Institute of
> > > > >>>>> Engineers of Kenya),
> Medical
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Practictioners
> Board amongst others to
> > > > >>>> regulate
> > > > >>>>> the IT Profession.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> And by the
> way, KICTAnet does not fit the
> > > > >>>> bill
> > > > >>>>> either (and has a
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> different
> objective anyway). But time has
> > > > >>>> come
> > > > >>>>> to really start
> thinking
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> of regulating
> the IT profession, even as we
> > > > >>>>> struggle to regulate
> the
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead
> > > > >>>> on
> > > > >>>>> this, but they have
> been
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> awfully quite
> except when they award prizes
> > > > >>>> at
> > > > >>>>> the end of the year
> > > > >>>>> (Waudo
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I know u will
> kill me offline but I just had
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >>>>> say it!).
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> KEPSA? very
> reputable and effective
> > > > >>>> particularly
> > > > >>>>> in the Manufacturing
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> sector but on
> IT? am not sure they have been
> > > > >>>> as
> > > > >>>>> effective -
> particularly
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> because the
> link between KEPSA/KIF and the
> > > > >>>> IT
> > > > >>>>> industry has been
> 'cloudy'
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> for lack of a
> better word...Can for example
> > > > >>>> CSK
> > > > >>>>> or ISACA be part of
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> KEPSA without
> being part of KIF? I again
> > > > >>>> need to
> > > > >>>>> be enlightened.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> O.K. I agree I
> did digress, but just
> > > > >>>> thinking
> > > > >>>>> loudly and saying that
> as
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> we think of
> regulating electronic
> > > > >>>> transactions,
> > > > >>>>> we also need to
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> simultaneously
> start regulating the IT
> > > > >>>>> profession..but maybe
> I am wrong.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Particularly
> because regulation can and
> > > > >>>> often
> > > > >>>>> leads to
> suppression...
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> walu.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> --- On Sun,
> 7/6/08, Marcel Werner
> > > > >>>>>
> <marcelcwerner@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> From:
> Marcel Werner
> > > > >>>>>
> <marcelcwerner@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Subject:
> [kictanet] Legislation and
> > > > >>>>> Regulation for
> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> To:
> jwalu@yahoo.com
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Cc:
> secretariat@kif.or.ke,
> > > > >>>> "KICTAnet
> > > > >>>>> ICT Policy
> Discussions"
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Date:
> Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> Legislation and Regulation for
> > > > >>>> e-Commerce in
> > > > >>>>> Kenya
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Kenya ICT
> Federation (KIF) - Briefing
> > > > >>>> Note #
> > > > >>>>> 3 - Report -
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Public
> Panel 19
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> June 2008
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will
> > > > >>>> add
> > > > >>>>> at least one
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> percent
> point growth
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> to
> Kenya's overall economic growth
> > > > >>>>> within five years.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> This is
> contingent
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> upon the
> adoption of legislation that
> > > > >>>>> supports electronic
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> transactions. *Kenya,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> as an
> emerging economy and regional
> > > > >>>> leader,
> > > > >>>>> lags behind in
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> having a
> legal
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> framework
> for e-commerce in place. The
> > > > >>>>> current situation is
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> an
> anachronism
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> hampering
> national development, placing
> > > > >>>>> provincial centres
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> at a
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> disadvantage, and harming global
> > > > >>>>> competitiveness. Both
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> external
> and internal
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> trade
> require the new framework.The
> > > > >>>> Kenyan
> > > > >>>>> private sector
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> strongly
> supports
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> e-commerce
> legislation, as well as
> > > > >>>>> legislation of the
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> Information and
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> Communication Technology sector that
> > > > >>>>> guarantees an open
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> market and
> promotes
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> innovation.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Why
> e-commerce law? Today, legislation
> > > > >>>>> supporting
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> electronic
> transactions
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> represents
> the single most powerful
> > > > >>>>> innovation opportunity
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> in the
> legal
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> framework
> of the ICT sector.
> > > > >>>> Legislation is
> > > > >>>>> needed to:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> -Legalize
> e-commerce transactions by
> > > > >>>>> recognizing an
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> electronic
> signature
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> -Manage
> and control e-commerce r
> > > > >>> <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY
> ASSOCIATION.doc>
> > > > >>>
> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> kictanet mailing list
> > > > >>> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > > >>>
> > >
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> This message was sent to:
> blongwe@gmail.com
> > > > >>> Unsubscribe or change your
> options at
> > >
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> kictanet mailing list
> > > > >> kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > > >>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This message was sent to:
> emailsignet@mailcan.com
> > > > >> Unsubscribe or change your options
> at
> > > > >>
> > >
> >
>
http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c
> > om
> > > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone
> seldom makes people work
> > > > > (Confucius).
> > > > >
> > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom
> makes people work
> > (Confucius).
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kictanet mailing list
> > > kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > This message was sent to: jmanthi@gmail.com
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