- KICTANet - KICTANet

RE: List Merger/amalgamation
by Wainaina Mungai 27 Sep '05

27 Sep '05

Hi, I believe the feeling by some members is that the KIP project and the KICTANet process need to be clear on whether a merger of email lists means a merger of processes & project plans. - If the merge of e-mail discussion list does not mean a merger of two projects/processes, then the answer is go-ahead. - If it means we merge processes, then let's first find out why KIP & KICTANet should be one (other than avoiding the duplication of emails). KICTANet has an evolving structure and plan of work. What is the KIP project up to? If those two differ, then merger would not be prudent. Is there anyone in a position to clarify the issues above? >From the comments I have read on CS & MSPs, I believe Bill's point is that private sector lobby groups (TESPOK, CSK, KIF et. al.) should not be considered as 'civil society'.and that KICTANet is not 'civil society' but rather, a 'multistakeholder forum' for CS, private sector et. al. to develop common positions and partnerships for action. Regards Wainaina What is civil society meant to bring to the ICT policy and implementation processes in Kenya? (Adapted from APC's (Karen Banks) CS presentation in Tokyo, May 2005) Civil Society provides "a space between the market & the State". Neither private sector nor government can play this role. The role of civil society within KICTANet and other processes shall include: - Accountability: keep political & market forces accountable to the needs of all members of society - Transparency: encourage social responsibility and good governance practice - People versus profit: advocate for development of social projects & activities that are critical but may not be 'fashionable' or profitable - Civil Society values: shaping vision of human-centred information societies based on human rights, sustainable development, social justice & empowerment -----Original Message----- From: bounce-kiplist-cl-117112(a)lyris.idrc.ca [mailto:bounce-kiplist-cl-117112@lyris.idrc.ca] On Behalf Of Brian Longwe Sent: 27 September 2005 10:45 To: KIPlist Cc: lelder(a)idrc.ca; lkirkham(a)idrc.or.ke Subject: Re: List Merger/amalgamation my suggestion is that the lists should be merged Brian On 27 Sep 2005, at 02:56, John Walubengo wrote: > Unbelievably to the point. These examples from Bill can never be > any better...I now know what Civil Society should really be about... > > My only problem is that I am not sure whether we have resolved the > original issue:- Should we merge, cooperate or patner the two lists? > > Either way, I must confess that I am glad that the issue has > raised more questions than answers... > > walu. > > >>>> Bill Kagai <billkagai(a)gmail.com> 09/26/05 07:26PM >>> >>>> > On 9/26/05, waudo siganga <emailsignet(a)mailcan.com> wrote: > >> Hi Bill, >> >> I agree with you that "organizations representing or improving the >> environment where private sector interests thrive cannot >> [necessarily] >> be justified as Civil Society". However I do not agree with your >> assertion that these organizations "do not care and neither would >> they >> address the social implications of their direct >> actions. " This is a very strong but wrong statement. The majority of >> successful organizations in the private sector run well documented >> social responsibilty programs, unless I have mis-understood you. >> > > Hi Waudo, > > You got me wrong!! Let me use two or three examples to illustrate my > point on social implications. > > 1. We know that internet exchange points have been established, fibre > has been rolled around the metropolis, direct VSATs licensed...and > realistically...though debatable, internet costs should go down. Has > this happened?? No!! Because we cannot expect organisations fighting > regulatory and licensing affairs to also fight the battle for > consumers. Real Civil Society has to take up the issue of pushing for > consumer protection in a multi-stakeholder environment to force a > price reduction. > > 2. When a mobile telephone company at any one time holds kshs 9.00 > from each subscriber in their 3.1 million subscriber base..at any one > time, that translates to kshs 27,900,000 at any one time. Whilst the > mobile company might have good reasons for that, perhaps Civil Society > can lobby that the interest accruing from that account is used to > champion ICT or any other humanitarian rights equivalent to that > amount. Telecommunication organisations might champion other interests > but certainly not those that are in direct conflict with those of > their members. > > These are just but two fallacies (by example) that only true Civil > Society can champion...if the proper support goes to the right > organisations. But again, they are hypothetical. > > [No persons are meant to be hurt in these examples and all characters > are fictitious. Any resemblance to an entity that fits the description > is purely by coincidence and any insinuation is highly regretted.] > > --- > Submitted by: Bildad Kagia <billkagai(a)gmail.com> 2005-09-26 > 12:31:37 EDT4 > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > --- > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist- > cl-102682Q(a)lyris.idrc.ca > > > --- > Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-27 > 01:50:56 EDT4 > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > --- > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [brian(a)pure-id.com] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist- > cl-91321D(a)lyris.idrc.ca > -- Brian Longwe Tel: +254 20 316171 Chief Executive Officer Cell:+254 722 518744 InHand Limited Fax: +254 20 350157 Sharp Centre, Wambui Rd PO Box 43042-00100 Muthaiga, Nairobi http://www.inhand.co.ke KENYA Putting the world in your hand --- Submitted by: brian(a)inhand.co.ke 2005-09-27 02:46:48 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [wainaina.mungai(a)oneworld.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-117112D(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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Re: List Merger/amalgamation
by John Walubengo 27 Sep '05

27 Sep '05

Unbelievably to the point. These examples from Bill can never be any better...I now know what Civil Society should really be about... My only problem is that I am not sure whether we have resolved the original issue:- Should we merge, cooperate or patner the two lists? Either way, I must confess that I am glad that the issue has raised more questions than answers... walu. >>> Bill Kagai <billkagai(a)gmail.com> 09/26/05 07:26PM >>> On 9/26/05, waudo siganga <emailsignet(a)mailcan.com> wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I agree with you that "organizations representing or improving the > environment where private sector interests thrive cannot [necessarily] > be justified as Civil Society". However I do not agree with your > assertion that these organizations "do not care and neither would they > address the social implications of their direct > actions. " This is a very strong but wrong statement. The majority of > successful organizations in the private sector run well documented > social responsibilty programs, unless I have mis-understood you. Hi Waudo, You got me wrong!! Let me use two or three examples to illustrate my point on social implications. 1. We know that internet exchange points have been established, fibre has been rolled around the metropolis, direct VSATs licensed...and realistically...though debatable, internet costs should go down. Has this happened?? No!! Because we cannot expect organisations fighting regulatory and licensing affairs to also fight the battle for consumers. Real Civil Society has to take up the issue of pushing for consumer protection in a multi-stakeholder environment to force a price reduction. 2. When a mobile telephone company at any one time holds kshs 9.00 from each subscriber in their 3.1 million subscriber base..at any one time, that translates to kshs 27,900,000 at any one time. Whilst the mobile company might have good reasons for that, perhaps Civil Society can lobby that the interest accruing from that account is used to champion ICT or any other humanitarian rights equivalent to that amount. Telecommunication organisations might champion other interests but certainly not those that are in direct conflict with those of their members. These are just but two fallacies (by example) that only true Civil Society can champion...if the proper support goes to the right organisations. But again, they are hypothetical. [No persons are meant to be hurt in these examples and all characters are fictitious. Any resemblance to an entity that fits the description is purely by coincidence and any insinuation is highly regretted.] --- Submitted by: Bildad Kagia <billkagai(a)gmail.com> 2005-09-26 12:31:37 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-102682Q(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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List Merger/amalgamation
by Florence Etta 26 Sep '05

26 Sep '05

Hi all, At a a brief meeting on Friday Alice and I agreed that it would be a good idea to merge the two list, KICTANet and KIPList. This email is basically to ask if you think this to be a good idea or not and why. Cheers, FE Florence Etta Co-Ordinator, Kenya ICT Policy Project International Development Research Centre Liaison House, State House Avenue P.O. Box 62084, 00200, Nairobi, Kenya Tel: +254-20-2713160-1: Cell +254-733-621851 Fax: +254-20-2711063 E-mail: fetta(a)idrc.or.ke Web:http// www.idrc.ca/acacia

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Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender
by alice＠apc.org 25 Sep '05

25 Sep '05

----- Original Message ----- From: <alice(a)apc.org> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:51 PM Subject: Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender > This is scandalous! more so as consumers continue to suffer the > consequences of a > duopoly.... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > How broke company won tender > > By Gordon Opiyo > > Details of how companies that were in the red won the country's > third mobile license have been exposed. > > Initial investigations by the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission into > the award of the license in 2003 show that two of the major > shareholders in consortium were had financial difficulties at the > time of the award. > > The investigations could expose what could be one of the > country's > biggest public tendering scandals. > > At the same time, court documents from the South African High Court > have shed more light into intricacies that led to the controversial > award. > > Audited accounts of Econet Wireless International made available > to `The Sunday Standard' show that the company's > financial state was > so bad in 2003 that they could not qualify for an overdraft from any > international bank. > > Sources at the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission say investigators > were startled at the state of accounts of the two main shareholders. > > The winning consortium consisted of Kenya National Federation of Co- > operatives 81 per cent, Econet Wireless International 10 per cent, > Rapsel and Corporate Africa each with 4.5 per cent. > > The Communications Commission of Kenya required members of the > consortium to have a minimum turn over of $100 million (Sh7.5 > billion). > > "Econet's and Kenya National Federation of Co-operatives' > records > could not pass any basic stage even in low capital expenditure > projects," says a senior investigator at the anti- graft body. > > The turn over of Econet Wireless International in that year was $8 > million that of Econet Satellite Services was $9 million, while > Econet Wireless New Zealand, was in deficit. Thus the total turnover > of companies that qualified for the Econet bid was less than $20 > million. > > With the other partners not being financially stable, the consortium > fell short of the minimum financial requirements by well over $80 > million. > > Accounts audited by the London-based Deloitte & Touche LLP paint a > gloomy picture of the state of affairs at Econet Wireless > International. > > In one of the reports, auditors declare that Econet Wireless Limited, > Company Registration No. 4149948, in the year ended June 30, 2003, > urgently needed a cash injection. > > The auditors say: "Each of the Group's (Econet's) Investment > requires > additional financing in the short term in order to develop their > businesses which could then support the carrying values of these > investments in the group's balance sheet. > > The ability of these investment businesses to raise further financing > is not known with any reasonable degree of certainty at this time. " > > The auditors also declare the Econet group could not acquire > overdraft facilities at the time it acquired Kenya's third GSM > license. > > The auditors declare: "The financial statements have been prepared on > the going concern basis, however, the company is in the process of > obtaining further funds to finance ongoing day to day operations and > to finance future capital expenditure." > > The report continues: " In this respect the directors are aware that > they do not have overdraft facilities and there is an immediate and > ongoing need to raise cash to fund day to day operations of the > company and group and to finance the construction of the New Zealand > Telecommunications network." On June 28, Co-operatives Development > minister Njeru Ndwiga shocked the nation when he announced that the > group that had acquired the 81 per cent stake in the third mobile > company was bankrupt. > > Ndwiga announced KNFC was indebted to the tune of Sh40 million > against an asset base of Sh25 million. > > Ndwiga said the cash-strapped organisation was unable to honuor basic > financial obligations such as its Sh1.3 million monthly wage bill, > repayment of a Sh10 million loan from the Cooperative Bank, Sh5.6 > million in statutory deductions and Sh800, 000 in legal fees. > > The minister said that the printing press worth Sh20 million was > vandalised. Ndwiga's revelation came months after The Sunday > Standard > exclusively reported that the company was unable to honour its > obligations in the mobile phone company. > > As a result, the minister banned all officials of KNFC from holding > any position within the co-operative sector. > > The other shareholder, Manga Mugwe of Rapsel Limited had a dispute > with Kenya Commercial Bank over a loan. > > More details of the financial state of Econet Wireless International > came into the public domain in June this year at the South African > High Court. Econet had taken its former finance director, Mwaura > Njiri, to court; accusing him of using confidential information he > got during his tenure to hurt the company. > > In the case number 05/12059 that was heard at the Witwatersrand Local > Division, Mwaura defended himself against the allegations. In a sworn > affidavit explaining how funds for the license fee were raised, > Mwaura says, "The first applicant's (Econet Wireless > International > Limited) balance sheet at that time was so bad that it (Econet) was > unable to obtain funds from any bank. > > The First applicant in fact had been unable to raise the required > amount of $27 million ." > > Mwaura, during whose tenure Econet bid for the license says the > company managed to get funding as a result of his personal > commitment. > > As Econet drags its feet on its roll out plan, the two existing > mobile companies continue making huge profits as the public pays > heavily for their services. > > source : http://www.eastandard.net/hm_news/news.php?articleid=29062 > > > > > Dig Africa site welcomes you to join us at > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Digafrica > > Also if you are interested to join a Swahili/English discussion group > click > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/kiswahili > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "DigAfrica" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigAfrica-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >

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The Current Constitution: A download link
by Alex Gakuru 23 Sep '05

23 Sep '05

Hi All, I found the current constitution here http://www.katiba.co.ke/uploads/current_constitution.pdf Alex

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Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers
by Florence Etta 23 Sep '05

23 Sep '05

Hi, I believe Alice's is a good idea lets go for this. So when exactly can we have this Meeting in October I personally will be away until 12th. I guess what I am suggesting is for us to continue the planning of this meeting while taking this new angle into consideration etc etc. Cheers, FE At 07:37 PM 9/22/2005 +0300, alice(a)apc.org wrote: >Dear Michael >Thank you for your response. to meet delegation from both the Kenya ICT >policy and Kenya ICT Action Network lists. >We have a public forum planned for October to discuss these issues and your >participation will be most welcome > >kind regards >alice > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael Joseph" <MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke> >To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> >Cc: <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> >Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:21 PM >Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers > > >Whatever I may say or think, you will probably disagree with me, but the >statements contained herein are widely inaccurate, and I am very happy and >willing to meet a delegation of this list to clarify and clear up the >inaccurate statements. I take strong exception to some of what is said as >that is neither our practice as a company nor mine as an individual. > >Regards > >Michael > >-----Original Message----- > From: "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> > Sent: 22/09/05 12:11:11 > To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> > Cc: "kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> > Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers > > "On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: > > I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should > straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning..." > > Unlike Brian, I do wish I could take sides on this one...but this issue >is too complex and > as outsiders, we can only make educated guesses (speculate?). > > Definately, the 3rd Mobile License Saga is not moving forward as >planned. This has created a defacto duopoly that Safaricom and Celtel >continue to exploit with impunity (High Calling rates(airtime) for Kenyans >when rated Internationally, Lack of Number Portability, poorly implemented >EIR (the software that disables stolen phones) system, Unreliable Emergency >Service Lines (equivalent to 999 services), Delayed SMS deliveries, >Retention of Unused Credit, etc, etc, etc. > > A 3rd Mobile Service Provider is likely to destroy un-written, cartel >agreements that the current service providers are conviniently enjoying. >However, the process for inviting the 3rd Operator has been halted in courts >and one wonders (and speculates) on whether the delayed processing of >resolving issue is not deliberate to perpetuate the status quo... > > > walu. > > > > > > >>> <alice(a)apc.org> 09/22/05 11:39am >>> > Brian, I think it was clear that your reference was to the conclusion > arrived at by the author of the article. > But you do bring into light certain aspects that the author left out >which > is helpful in understanding the situation. > However, I think, it would be even more helpful if journalists could go >the > extra mile to explain the mechanisms/structures of the industry being > reported on and allow readers to make the mental exercise of jumping >into > conclusions! > > > thanks > alice > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Longwe" <cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com> > To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> > Cc: "Kenya ICT Policy - kictanet" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke>; "KIPlist" > <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Kictanet] Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender > > > > > > On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: > > > >> I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should > >> straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning... > > > > I don't normally reply to my own emails - but I just realised that my > > mention of spurious reasoning yesterday might have been misconstrued > > to be referring to the comments made by my colleagues Alice and > > Florence. I would like to make a correction - I was not referring to > > them but rather to the conclusion reached in the press article by the > > author, which seem to have been based on questionable sources of > > information. > > > > Apologies to all for any misunderstanding :-) > > > > Brian > > > > --- > > Submitted by: cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com 2005-09-22 02:06:01 EDT4 > > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] > > To unsubscribe, forward this message to > > %%email.unsub%% > > > > >--- >Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 04:44:57 EDT4 >(Please reply to original submitter for private communication) >--- >You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] >To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% > > >--- >Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-22 05:13:18 >EDT4 >(Please reply to original submitter for private communication) >--- >You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke] >To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% > > >--- >Submitted by: MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke 2005-09-22 12:26:44 EDT4 >(Please reply to original submitter for private communication) >--- >You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] >To unsubscribe, forward this message to >%%email.unsub%% > > >--- >Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 12:42:24 EDT4 >(Please reply to original submitter for private communication) >--- >You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [fetta(a)idrc.or.ke] >To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-91439A(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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Fw: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers
by alice＠apc.org 23 Sep '05

23 Sep '05

FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Joseph" <MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke> To: <alice(a)apc.org> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers Thank you, I would like to be there. Please let me know the exact dates when you have them. Regards Michael -----Original Message----- From: alice(a)apc.org Sent: 22/09/05 19:38:44 To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers Dear Michael Thank you for your response. to meet delegation from both the Kenya ICT policy and Kenya ICT Action Network lists. We have a public forum planned for October to discuss these issues and your participation will be most welcome kind regards alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Joseph" <MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers Whatever I may say or think, you will probably disagree with me, but the statements contained herein are widely inaccurate, and I am very happy and willing to meet a delegation of this list to clarify and clear up the inaccurate statements. I take strong exception to some of what is said as that is neither our practice as a company nor mine as an individual. Regards Michael -----Original Message----- From: "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> Sent: 22/09/05 12:11:11 To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers "On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning..." Unlike Brian, I do wish I could take sides on this one...but this issue is too complex and as outsiders, we can only make educated guesses (speculate?). Definately, the 3rd Mobile License Saga is not moving forward as planned. This has created a defacto duopoly that Safaricom and Celtel continue to exploit with impunity (High Calling rates(airtime) for Kenyans when rated Internationally, Lack of Number Portability, poorly implemented EIR (the software that disables stolen phones) system, Unreliable Emergency Service Lines (equivalent to 999 services), Delayed SMS deliveries, Retention of Unused Credit, etc, etc, etc. A 3rd Mobile Service Provider is likely to destroy un-written, cartel agreements that the current service providers are conviniently enjoying. However, the process for inviting the 3rd Operator has been halted in courts and one wonders (and speculates) on whether the delayed processing of resolving issue is not deliberate to perpetuate the status quo... walu. >>> <alice(a)apc.org> 09/22/05 11:39am >>> Brian, I think it was clear that your reference was to the conclusion arrived at by the author of the article. But you do bring into light certain aspects that the author left out which is helpful in understanding the situation. However, I think, it would be even more helpful if journalists could go the extra mile to explain the mechanisms/structures of the industry being reported on and allow readers to make the mental exercise of jumping into conclusions! thanks alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Longwe" <cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "Kenya ICT Policy - kictanet" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke>; "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Kictanet] Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender > > On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: > >> I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should >> straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning... > > I don't normally reply to my own emails - but I just realised that my > mention of spurious reasoning yesterday might have been misconstrued > to be referring to the comments made by my colleagues Alice and > Florence. I would like to make a correction - I was not referring to > them but rather to the conclusion reached in the press article by the > author, which seem to have been based on questionable sources of > information. > > Apologies to all for any misunderstanding :-) > > Brian > > --- > Submitted by: cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com 2005-09-22 02:06:01 EDT4 > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > --- > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to > %%email.unsub%% > --- Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 04:44:57 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-22 05:13:18 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke 2005-09-22 12:26:44 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 12:42:24 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-90993H(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers
by alice＠apc.org 22 Sep '05

22 Sep '05

Dear Michael Thank you for your response. to meet delegation from both the Kenya ICT policy and Kenya ICT Action Network lists. We have a public forum planned for October to discuss these issues and your participation will be most welcome kind regards alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Joseph" <MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers Whatever I may say or think, you will probably disagree with me, but the statements contained herein are widely inaccurate, and I am very happy and willing to meet a delegation of this list to clarify and clear up the inaccurate statements. I take strong exception to some of what is said as that is neither our practice as a company nor mine as an individual. Regards Michael -----Original Message----- From: "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> Sent: 22/09/05 12:11:11 To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers "On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning..." Unlike Brian, I do wish I could take sides on this one...but this issue is too complex and as outsiders, we can only make educated guesses (speculate?). Definately, the 3rd Mobile License Saga is not moving forward as planned. This has created a defacto duopoly that Safaricom and Celtel continue to exploit with impunity (High Calling rates(airtime) for Kenyans when rated Internationally, Lack of Number Portability, poorly implemented EIR (the software that disables stolen phones) system, Unreliable Emergency Service Lines (equivalent to 999 services), Delayed SMS deliveries, Retention of Unused Credit, etc, etc, etc. A 3rd Mobile Service Provider is likely to destroy un-written, cartel agreements that the current service providers are conviniently enjoying. However, the process for inviting the 3rd Operator has been halted in courts and one wonders (and speculates) on whether the delayed processing of resolving issue is not deliberate to perpetuate the status quo... walu. >>> <alice(a)apc.org> 09/22/05 11:39am >>> Brian, I think it was clear that your reference was to the conclusion arrived at by the author of the article. But you do bring into light certain aspects that the author left out which is helpful in understanding the situation. However, I think, it would be even more helpful if journalists could go the extra mile to explain the mechanisms/structures of the industry being reported on and allow readers to make the mental exercise of jumping into conclusions! thanks alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Longwe" <cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "Kenya ICT Policy - kictanet" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke>; "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Kictanet] Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender > > On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: > >> I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should >> straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning... > > I don't normally reply to my own emails - but I just realised that my > mention of spurious reasoning yesterday might have been misconstrued > to be referring to the comments made by my colleagues Alice and > Florence. I would like to make a correction - I was not referring to > them but rather to the conclusion reached in the press article by the > author, which seem to have been based on questionable sources of > information. > > Apologies to all for any misunderstanding :-) > > Brian > > --- > Submitted by: cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com 2005-09-22 02:06:01 EDT4 > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > --- > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to > %%email.unsub%% > --- Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 04:44:57 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-22 05:13:18 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke 2005-09-22 12:26:44 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-100946B(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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Fw: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers
by alice＠apc.org 22 Sep '05

22 Sep '05

Hi all FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Joseph" <MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers Whatever I may say or think, you will probably disagree with me, but the statements contained herein are widely inaccurate, and I am very happy and willing to meet a delegation of this list to clarify and clear up the inaccurate statements. I take strong exception to some of what is said as that is neither our practice as a company nor mine as an individual. Regards Michael -----Original Message----- From: "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> Sent: 22/09/05 12:11:11 To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers "On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning..." Unlike Brian, I do wish I could take sides on this one...but this issue is too complex and as outsiders, we can only make educated guesses (speculate?). Definately, the 3rd Mobile License Saga is not moving forward as planned. This has created a defacto duopoly that Safaricom and Celtel continue to exploit with impunity (High Calling rates(airtime) for Kenyans when rated Internationally, Lack of Number Portability, poorly implemented EIR (the software that disables stolen phones) system, Unreliable Emergency Service Lines (equivalent to 999 services), Delayed SMS deliveries, Retention of Unused Credit, etc, etc, etc. A 3rd Mobile Service Provider is likely to destroy un-written, cartel agreements that the current service providers are conviniently enjoying. However, the process for inviting the 3rd Operator has been halted in courts and one wonders (and speculates) on whether the delayed processing of resolving issue is not deliberate to perpetuate the status quo... walu. >>> <alice(a)apc.org> 09/22/05 11:39am >>> Brian, I think it was clear that your reference was to the conclusion arrived at by the author of the article. But you do bring into light certain aspects that the author left out which is helpful in understanding the situation. However, I think, it would be even more helpful if journalists could go the extra mile to explain the mechanisms/structures of the industry being reported on and allow readers to make the mental exercise of jumping into conclusions! thanks alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Longwe" <cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "Kenya ICT Policy - kictanet" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke>; "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Kictanet] Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender > > On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: > >> I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should >> straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning... > > I don't normally reply to my own emails - but I just realised that my > mention of spurious reasoning yesterday might have been misconstrued > to be referring to the comments made by my colleagues Alice and > Florence. I would like to make a correction - I was not referring to > them but rather to the conclusion reached in the press article by the > author, which seem to have been based on questionable sources of > information. > > Apologies to all for any misunderstanding :-) > > Brian > > --- > Submitted by: cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com 2005-09-22 02:06:01 EDT4 > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > --- > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to > %%email.unsub%% > --- Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 04:44:57 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-22 05:13:18 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to %%email.unsub%% --- Submitted by: MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke 2005-09-22 12:26:44 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-100946B(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers
by Michael Joseph 22 Sep '05

22 Sep '05

Whatever I may say or think, you will probably disagree with me, but the statements contained herein are widely inaccurate, and I am very happy and willing to meet a delegation of this list to clarify and clear up the inaccurate statements. I take strong exception to some of what is said as that is neither our practice as a company nor mine as an individual. Regards Michael -----Original Message----- From: "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> Sent: 22/09/05 12:11:11 To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: Duopoly by Mobile Service Providers "On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning..." Unlike Brian, I do wish I could take sides on this one...but this issue is too complex and as outsiders, we can only make educated guesses (speculate?). Definately, the 3rd Mobile License Saga is not moving forward as planned. This has created a defacto duopoly that Safaricom and Celtel continue to exploit with impunity (High Calling rates(airtime) for Kenyans when rated Internationally, Lack of Number Portability, poorly implemented EIR (the software that disables stolen phones) system, Unreliable Emergency Service Lines (equivalent to 999 services), Delayed SMS deliveries, Retention of Unused Credit, etc, etc, etc. A 3rd Mobile Service Provider is likely to destroy un-written, cartel agreements that the current service providers are conviniently enjoying. However, the process for inviting the 3rd Operator has been halted in courts and one wonders (and speculates) on whether the delayed processing of resolving issue is not deliberate to perpetuate the status quo... walu. >>> <alice(a)apc.org> 09/22/05 11:39am >>> Brian, I think it was clear that your reference was to the conclusion arrived at by the author of the article. But you do bring into light certain aspects that the author left out which is helpful in understanding the situation. However, I think, it would be even more helpful if journalists could go the extra mile to explain the mechanisms/structures of the industry being reported on and allow readers to make the mental exercise of jumping into conclusions! thanks alice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Longwe" <cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com> To: "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Cc: "Kenya ICT Policy - kictanet" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke>; "KIPlist" <kiplist-cl(a)lyris.idrc.ca> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Kictanet] Fw: [DigAfrica] How broke company won tender > > On 21 Sep 2005, at 22:06, Brian Longwe wrote: > >> I'm not taking sides here, just asking questions that I think should >> straighten what is clearly spurios reasoning... > > I don't normally reply to my own emails - but I just realised that my > mention of spurious reasoning yesterday might have been misconstrued > to be referring to the comments made by my colleagues Alice and > Florence. I would like to make a correction - I was not referring to > them but rather to the conclusion reached in the press article by the > author, which seem to have been based on questionable sources of > information. > > Apologies to all for any misunderstanding :-) > > Brian > > --- > Submitted by: cto(a)nbi.ispkenya.com 2005-09-22 02:06:01 EDT4 > (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) > --- > You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [alice(a)apc.org] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to > %%email.unsub%% > --- Submitted by: alice(a)apc.org 2005-09-22 04:44:57 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-102682Q(a)lyris.idrc.ca --- Submitted by: John Walubengo <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> 2005-09-22 05:13:18 EDT4 (Please reply to original submitter for private communication) --- You are currently subscribed to kiplist-cl as: [MJoseph(a)Safaricom.co.ke] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-kiplist-cl-90993H(a)lyris.idrc.ca

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