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Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by John Maina 18 Oct '08

18 Oct '08

Gachui What is this list for? Can we please discuss issues with open heart. One claimed that this list is not the police. Is this list also parliament to discuss bills? Please lets all handle issues openly because if we be discriminative and very rigid then we will be going nowhere JM ----- Original Message ---- From: gachuhi anthony <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> To: j.maina(a)ymail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:16:22 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests Moderator Is there a way off having an online poll to know where we stand maybe from there we may be able to know who is for or against the policies being discussed. Then we can give reasons as I don't think this a list to decide who is more kenyan than the other its about what will affect us all Tony On 10/16/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org> wrote: > Dear all, > > What is the desired outcome of this very energised thread? (Select one) > > A: That the PS (I&C) announce that policies shall be developed in an > open, transparent and consultative manner. He also must organise a > forum to kickstart non-emotive talks by mid-November. > > B: That PS Ndemo resigns and is replaced with a person of your choice. > > C: That the Econet licence, Kencall licence and related MoUs, > contracts signed by PS (I&C) be cancelled. > > D: That all stakeholders Govt., KICTANET, KIF, CA, etc organise an > "ICT Investment" policy forum to be held in Nairobi around mid- > November 2008. > > I hope this shall help us focus on defining and achieving a common > goal so that we desist from personal attacks on integrity, racial > profiling and so on... > > Good day, > Wainaina > > On 10/16/08, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these lessons do not include: >> >> 1. How to give away your national treasures - like bandwidth - to foreign >> entities just because they say they can not do any business with local >> entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you would never get a >> license >> to operate in UAE if this was your argument. Further to this lesson I >> would >> like to point to these additional countries that would laugh you out of >> town >> if you made that argument - US (some businesses like Airline, Military and >> Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & TV), India, Singapore, >> Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of Middle East, South >> Africa, >> Japan (especially Japan) >> >> 2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there with its eyes opened. >> When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very stupid woman, who >> knowing >> what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that the man is feeding her. >> And >> if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya will get what it >> deserves >> and very soon. A good example is Russia and its oligarchs - all members of >> the Forbes Richest. >> >> 3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a country. A leadership with >> intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top to bottom, >> >> 4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their own country and manage its >> growth >> >> 5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to grow it - a la Israel >> and >> India >> >> 6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped twice - We seem to be >> following a process that will guarantee our raping despite how Kenyan some >> members of this committee think they are. Its just a matter of time before >> they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not think that as a >> national >> planner I should be putting my eggs in that basket. >> >> Joe >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some useful >>> lessons! >>> >>> >>> > >>> >---- Original Message ---- >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >>> >Interests >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) >>> > >>> >>Lizette >>> >> >>> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >>> >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >>> >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you that >>> >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >>> >money from foreign banks. >>> >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very small >>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. They >>> >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service but >>> >make billions and run away with the billions. >>> >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, black >>> >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and really >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >>> >people like PS >>> >> >>> >>JM >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >>> >Interests >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >>> >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even through >>> >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >>> >though about the Government and banks not supporting local investors >>> >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to setup >>> >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only they >>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant needs >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >>> >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just self >>> >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is kenyan >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and not >>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >>> >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and Kenyans >>> >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >>> >foreign owned companies has >>> >> its negative and positive effects. >>> >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >>> >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors with >>> >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >>> >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than their >>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>> >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >>> >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >>> >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>> >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>kictanet mailing list >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >> >>> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail. >>> >com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>-- >>> >>Lizette Kraft >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Joseph Manthi >> CEO >> MEO Ltd >> http://www.meoltd.com >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Made in Kenya Network > Apt. B-8, Elite Park > Ole Odume Road > P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 > Nairobi. Kenya > Tel: +254-20-3590451 > Cel: +254-722-811171 > Cel: +254-735-370840 > www.madeinkenya.org > > http://www.bungesms.com > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/gachuhi.anthony%40gmai… > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: j.maina(a)ymail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/j.maina%40ymail.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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KENYA ICT BOARD ANNOUNCES COMMENCEMENT OF BPO BANDWIDTH CAPACITY SUPPORT
by Lucy Odhiambo 18 Oct '08

18 Oct '08

Dear All, This morning the board held a press conference where our CEO , Paul Kukubo together with our Deputy CEOs, Eunice Kariuki and Victor Kyalo, and BPO operators, announced the commencement of disbursement of capacity support to the BPO industry. This is great news for the industry as it will go a long way to ensure the development and growth of this sub-sector. We have placed a notice to the same effect in today's Standard Newspapers and will place another one in tomorrow's Saturday Nation. The team also briefed the press on the upcoming Silicon Valley Trip and the great impact it will have on the broader ICT industry in terms of capacity and relationship building. We wish our colleagues ,directors and industry players all the best as they leave this weekend for San Jose, California. The press releases and FAQ sheet are herewith for your perusal. Regards, Lucy Gachui-Odhiambo Communications Manager Kenya ICT Board 12th Floor Telposta Towers Koinange Lane PO Box 27150 - 00100 Nairobi, Kenya Cell 0737- 839047 Tel: 254-020-2093040 www.ict.go.ke ICT-logo-02.jpg

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Mobile messaging for the masses – an idea whose time has come
by alice 18 Oct '08

18 Oct '08

(From Balancing Act) MobileActive 08: Mobile messaging for the masses – an idea whose time has come Three hundred and eighty people gathered from all over the world in Johannesburg this week to discuss how mobile phones might be used for social and political purposes in developing countries. The organisers and hosts Sangonet had expected 150 people but the topic clearly touched a nerve. The event crackled with the kind of energy that happens when people gather on a topic for the first time. Russell Southwood looks at the issues raised by the event’s subject. At the core of all this energy was a very simple notion. The technology device of choice for the majority of people in developing continents like Africa is the mobile phone. If you want to deliver messages to people or get them to respond then SMS or voice is an obvious route to go down. But mobiles are not just a delivery channel but are fast becoming a media in their own right. National consumer surveys in Balancing Act’s report African Broadcast and Film Markets showed that between 3-9% of respondents in a variety of countries named the mobile as one of the most used daily sources of information. But like the old Hollywood saying, there were only really five stories at MobileActive 08. These were identified by snappy tags like M-health or M-education: indeed, M- almost any development sector you care to think of. Well, there were actually eight areas of M-something: health, education, rural livelihoods (agriculture), governance (political campaigning), disaster warning and women. Mobiles are now being used to: send out bulk mailings to key target groups (nurses); mobilise supporters; poll people and gather data; to provide answers to enquiries; to offer information support for activities; and raise funds. The majority of this activity is based on the 160 characters available in SMS. In other words, it’s an instantaneous, wide angle media but you can’t say that much using it. But you can send several messages to overcome this limitation. However, as one-long time veteran of using technology for development in Africa told me:”Everyone knows how to use it and most people have access to it.” The sheer inventiveness of many of the different services was impressive. For example, I attended a presentation by Zimbabwe’s Kubatana.net who used the call centre functionality of Asterisk to create Freedom Fone. This was designed to counteract the tight control of media in that country by allowing users to phone in and listen to short radio-style programming. In the example aired musician Thomas Mapfumo talked of a campaign of “tough love” towards the Government. The early pioneers of using mobiles for social purposes go back in Africa to the funding of the agricultural pricing service pioneered by Senegal’s Manobi in 1998. But like a lot of new development-based activity, the use of mobiles seems to operate in a memory-free present tense. The early precursors of this activity were those who gathered at the beginning of the millennium to try and use the Internet as way to break out of seemingly intractable development issues: technology would provide a magic pill that opened up new solutions. On the one side you had the wild-eyed (often American) tech enthusiasts and on the other side, the mumbling choir of African policy makers who seemed to want something called the Information Society. And somewhere in between were the development professionals who were trying to make sense of it all. The hopes for technology as a magic solution were dashed upon the rocks of a lack of infrastructure, a consequent shortage of users and the inability of the mumbling choir to remove the policy blockages to achieve the much-mentioned Information Society. The disillusioned and pragmatic headed in a number of different directions. Some of them moved from focusing on the Internet to thinking about how to use mobile phones. People like Peter Armstrong of One World who set up an SMS jobs service in Nairobi’s Kibera were part of this group. Others started campaigning to change both the fundamentals of price and infrastructure. Whilst others, like Geek Corps founder Ethan Zuckerman (who has been a moving force behind encouraging blogging through Global Voices) moved off in new directions. The absence of those promoting the Internet at MobileActive perhaps reflects these changes. The Internet enthusiasts had to break through the standard development response which might be cruelly summarised as: how can you spend money on technology when poor people need _________ ?(insert the word reflecting your own particular work area). For whatever else, this interest in technology did, it began at the edges to challenge long-established funding patterns and the thinking around it. But it also initiated a debate about the efficacy of different types of media. The Internet was compared unfavourably with radio and in time also with mobile phones: something always had to be the answer to everything. But in reality, no-one thing is ever the answer to everything. People make use of a range of media and any process of communicating with them will be “hybrid”: in other words, it will be sent and received using a range of methods. The same righteous position-taking about what approach was morally superior was also present at the conference, best exemplified by a person who seemed to pop up at almost every session I attended and make the point that voice messages were more effective in communicating with the poor than text SMSs. Whilst the position has a useful grain of truth, it rather ignores the many millions of messages sent by the functionally and completely illiterate every month. And as I learned, the presence of SMS writers (who have sprung up alongside letter writers) in places like Pakistan, who charge the illiterate to send messages they compose for them. Unlike the initial world-changing promises for the Internet, those working with mobiles make more modest claims. Cell-Life which works in HIV-AIDS information says that missed appointments at Themba Lethu clinic in Johannesburg among the 9,000 patients using TxtAlert has dropped from 10% to 3%. SocialTxt which uses the 120 unused characters on the “please call me” message to insert calls to action about HIV-AIDS has driven an increase in people calling national helplines. One call centre reported that over two weeks 41% of users had accessed services following a campaign of this sort. These claims are merely illustrative of the various ways in which mobiles can change social circumstances favourably. Others included: using MIXIT to teach basic maths; mobilising protest by using SMS; “dating” agricultural growers with produce buyers using text alerts (TradeNet in Ghana); getting people to speak out against domestic violence (WOUGNET in Uganda); gathering data using Java-apps to create simple menus; weekly farming tips to farmers (CELAC project in Uganda); using a mobile phone on a table for conference calls with farmers; and many, many others. So whilst NGO professionals now make far greater use of PCs and the Internet in their work (according to the Worldwide Worx survey for 2007, 99% of South African NGOs use e-mail), there is a growing acknowledgement that mobile phones can be used effectively for wider communication. As Peter Benjamin of CellLife told me:”There’s a huge demand for information. Very good information already exists (in the HIV-AIDS field) and there are high levels of cell-phone usage. (For most of the people we want to talk to) e-mails and the Internet are from another planet. The mobile is the device in the hands of the majority and it can do interactions.” So if it’s such an obviously good idea, why can’t I name more successful, long-standing projects that have begun to change the fundamentals of communication or the lives of people? On the fingers of one hand, you have the aforementioned jobs service from One World and Safaricom’s M-Pesa service (which was initially funded by DFID through Vodafone) and errrr…that’s it? Readers may wish to write and tell me what a fool I am for forgetting to mention other long-standing projects but I doubt that I will find myself using the fingers of more than two hands. The immediate and seemingly reasonable response is that many of these projects are in their early stages. There did not seem to be a single project I spoke to at the conference that was not a pilot: in other words it will be funded for a year to three years and then may disappear. However, the early pioneers stretch back further and few have found their financial feet or scaled up in such a way that they have made a significant major impact. Indeed one might ask: with so many pilots around, when are we going to see some flying? An uncomfortable circle of circumstances involving what the service is, who might use and how it is funded chases its own tail to no little or no effect. You need scale to demonstrate effect. Scale takes time and money to establish. SMS itself in Africa did not spring out suddenly newly-formed with millions of users, it took time to develop. With certain notable exceptions, donors and foundations are keen to seed but do not take a long view. Impact only comes with scale. A few hundred users is hopeless, a few thousand users is promising, a few hundred thousand users is suggestive and over a million means you’re actually getting somewhere. For complex systems, like agriculture, you need to have “critical mass” across several countries. Faced with the daunting cliff of “scaling-up” or “rolling-out”, some in the development community go squishy and start saying things like cultures are different and things work differently in different places. But whilst this is undoubtedly true, these are what we know technically speaking as “excuses”. Mobile phones and the practice of using them differs from country to country but that hasn’t stopped them rolling out in every country in the world. The same will be true for services on mobile phones and their use as media: ways will be differ but certain things will be the same and the challenge is to make it so useful that people can’t fail to want it. It’s not about technology, it’s about what makes people’s lives easier. The big abstract concept areas of development (like health) may sound important and “do you good” but they have to fit into how people lead their lives and their sense of priorities. For as Mark Davies of TradeNet (who wrestles with the complicated issues affecting farmers) said:”It’s all about understanding the agents of change and that’s anthropology not technology.” People in development all too often think they know what’s good for people and for all the rhetoric about “bottom-up approaches” simply fail to observe what people are saying or doing. To be fair, that listening process is not as simple as it sounds. Gary Marsden of University of Cape Town ran a session that looked at the important relationship between potential users and developers. The design community’s version of “bottom-up” is “user-centred design”: the user becomes part of the design team in a warm, humane Scandinavian version of co-creation after you show them a prototype. The real difficulty faced by developers, according to Marsden, was that the potential users had no familiarity or conceptual framework to make a useful input. To use an analogy, it would be a bit like showing a pre-automobile, horse-rider a car and asking for design input. Why are there no stirrups? One Mexican group simply watched closely the intended users making use of the tools provided and used paper to sketch out what might happen with them. But this observation probably applies better to more complex apps for computers or menu-driven apps for mobiles, not SMS. But even with SMS simple design flaws can upset the process. One application for data collection using SMS involved using the hash key as separators but the hash key was different when the phone was in SMS mode for some users. From my own experience, African users want to be helpful and will often consciously or unconsciously simply mirror back what the project’s initiators want to hear. The conference had a session on “sustainability” which is one version of development-speak for: how will it pay for itself? I was unable to attend this session as I was speaking in another session but having closely grilled two or three people who attended, there didn’t seem to be a whole lot of answers that were aired. In truth, there are only three broad, long-term answers and none make very comfortable listening for those who want these projects to succeed. The user pays, the Government pays or as with other media, a sponsor or advertiser pays. There is an interesting sub-set of the user pays which is political issues and the campaigning that goes with them: Greenpeace Argentina can use phone calls to find supporters and ask some of them for funds to pay for this work. If it’s important to you and you want it enough, you’ll find a way of paying for it. The development sector usually assumes that if people are poor, then a service will need to be “free-at-the-point-of-delivery”: it costs money to have the service but it comes out of general taxation. But at one level poor people are not so different from the more well-off. The Orange Foundation ran a scheme in a poor part of Mali’s capital Bamako. Mothers would bring their babies to be weighed and the weights of the babies would be mailed to a paediatrician. He or she checked their progress and if and when weight progress fell below a certain level, advice or medication would be provided. There were 300 subscribers paying US$1.05 a month and by any description this is a health insurance scheme. As with using mobile phones, the poor will pay for what they really value. Therefore one challenge is to produce a service that they really value and large number can afford to pay a small amount for: Safaricom’s M-Pesa has 2.5 million users because it is a service that is really valued by its users. No capacity building workshops were run to help users, they taught themselves based on the service’s marketing information. There will be some services that cannot be commercialised because they are simply a public service: these will either need to be fundraised for or ultimately become part of the budget of Government. For the latter, the justification for spending will be two-fold. It communicates more effectively with a group of people and/or it is more cost effective. So for example, collecting data electronically is challenging but almost certainly quicker and cheaper than its paper and physical collection equivalent. But for African Governments, it implies overhauling a sclerotic and often inert civil service by moving money out of existing ways of doing things into new more effective ways of doing them. In terms of advertising and sponsors, the level of activity needs to be at a critical mass to attract interest. Praekelt Foundation’s use of advertising slogans on Call Me messages can reach 13 million people daily in South Africa. But for only 120 characters, the few thousand dollars they charge per million users seems reasonable. Nevertheless nw advertising media take time to establish themselves. But whatever the challenges and limitations of using mobiles as a media, this one will run and run as all those involved wrestle with different ways to make it work.

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Re: [kictanet] What should the Investment Policy Be?
by John Walubengo 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Plse lets hear more opinions on this issue. I heard one opinion that in the vent local investors are unable to raise funding, we could allow the foreing investor get in at 100% ownership on condition that they offload 20% to local investors within 3-5years. Is this workable? Yet another opinion was that local investors do have the funds - its just NOT structured i.e. well consolidated and cordinated. I think this may also be true if the recent Safaricom IPO is anything to go by. So it looks like we do have the funds for ICT investments while at the same time we dont! Where is the catch, bottleneck? How could this be resolved? walu. --- On Fri, 10/17/08, bitange(a)jambo.co.ke <bitange(a)jambo.co.ke> wrote: > From: bitange(a)jambo.co.ke <bitange(a)jambo.co.ke> > Subject: What should the Investment Policy Be? > To: jwalu(a)yahoo.com > Cc: bitange(a)jambo.co.ke, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:22 AM > Dear Listers, > A number of you have written to me off-list seeking to know > the > organizations that have sought excemption from the 20% > local equity > partcipation. > > These are four of the World's largets call centers and > two ICT equipment > manufacturers. They have said very clearly that they do > not want to go > through what some of the investors in telecoms sector went > through or are > going through. By this they mean local > "Investors" who fail to raise > their part of the bargain. We failed thrice to get the SNO > simply because > our local investors could not live up to their promises > (Vtel, Reliance > etc). This is an annormally in the current policy that > does not allow the > investor to seek for another local investor in the event of > a disagreement > in the first marriage (Do not read Econet since law is > never applied > retrospectively). > > Any progressive policy would give a chance to other people > instead of > forcing investors to stay in a marriage that does not bear > fruit. You > recall in past meeting we have called for such investments > to seek for > partnership at the stock exchange. This would mean then > that the current > policy is changed to allow that in the event there is a > disagreement, the > foreign investor can seek for a nother partner or better go > to the stock > market. > > My responsibility among others is to ensure that we achieve > vision 2030 > objectives as presicribed in the vision. In order to > achieve the targets, > especially of getting at least 50,000 youth into BPO sector > in the next > three years, we must get these bigies. This is what > Ireland, India and > Philipines did. > > Regards > > > Ndemo. > > > > > > > > Hey Folks, > > > > I have lurked in the background for a while and like > Wainaina I got a bit > > lost in the exchanges. But I think one fundamental > thread in all this - > > despite the muddy exchanges - is the question of how > do want to engage > > with Foreign Investors? JM and others may have a > point here - despite > > their strong language. > > > > So maybe to bring benefit out of all these, we could > indulge for a day or > > two on the Policy we want as far as Foreign Direct > Investments (FDI) into > > our ICT industry are concerned. > > > > Correct me if am wrong but I believe the Government > position/policy on > > this has been that the Foreign investor MUST > incorporate a local investor > > at minimum ratio 20%(local) to 80%(foreign) > ownership/equity. I think the > > members who feel that this should be changed have > cases/examples where the > > local equity/investor failed to come up with their 20% > capital and so the > > opportunity for investment disappears. On the other > hand, other members > > feel that local investors are abundantly rich and can > come up with even > > over 50% of any capital/equity required to invest in > the industry. > > > > I honestly dont know which side is right and which one > is wrong - but what > > I do know is that there exists cases where the local > investors have failed > > to meet their capital requirements - hence the need to > review or > > interrogate whether this policy is detrimental or > indeed beneficial to our > > industry. > > > > Plse lets have objective comments that are devoid of > personal attacks and > > we shall make progress. Otherwise we begin to sound > like a broken record. > > > > walu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 10/16/08, gachuhi anthony > <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> From: gachuhi anthony > <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal > aand Vested Interests > >> To: jwalu(a)yahoo.com > >> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" > <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> > >> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 8:16 AM > >> Moderator > >> Is there a way off having an online poll to know > where we > >> stand maybe > >> from there we may be able to know who is for or > against the > >> policies > >> being discussed. > >> Then we can give reasons as I don't think this > a list > >> to decide who is > >> more kenyan than the other its about what will > affect us > >> all > >> Tony > >> > >> > >> > >> On 10/16/08, Wainaina Mungai > >> <wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org> wrote: > >> > Dear all, > >> > > >> > What is the desired outcome of this very > energised > >> thread? (Select one) > >> > > >> > A: That the PS (I&C) announce that > policies shall > >> be developed in an > >> > open, transparent and consultative manner. He > also > >> must organise a > >> > forum to kickstart non-emotive talks by > mid-November. > >> > > >> > B: That PS Ndemo resigns and is replaced with > a person > >> of your choice. > >> > > >> > C: That the Econet licence, Kencall licence > and > >> related MoUs, > >> > contracts signed by PS (I&C) be > cancelled. > >> > > >> > D: That all stakeholders Govt., KICTANET, > KIF, CA, etc > >> organise an > >> > "ICT Investment" policy forum to be > held in > >> Nairobi around mid- > >> > November 2008. > >> > > >> > I hope this shall help us focus on defining > and > >> achieving a common > >> > goal so that we desist from personal attacks > on > >> integrity, racial > >> > profiling and so on... > >> > > >> > Good day, > >> > Wainaina > >> > > >> > On 10/16/08, Joseph Manthi > <jmanthi(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> >> Edith,There are some useful lessons - but > these > >> lessons do not include: > >> >> > >> >> 1. How to give away your national > treasures - like > >> bandwidth - to foreign > >> >> entities just because they say they can > not do any > >> business with local > >> >> entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a > fact, you > >> would never get a > >> >> license > >> >> to operate in UAE if this was your > argument. > >> Further to this lesson I > >> >> would > >> >> like to point to these additional > countries that > >> would laugh you out of > >> >> town > >> >> if you made that argument - US (some > businesses > >> like Airline, Military and > >> >> Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), > Radio & > >> TV), India, Singapore, > >> >> Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the > whole of > >> Middle East, South > >> >> Africa, > >> >> Japan (especially Japan) > >> >> > >> >> 2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to > heading there > >> with its eyes opened. > >> >> When a man approaches a woman, it would > be a very > >> stupid woman, who > >> >> knowing > >> >> what a man is capable of, to accept the > BS that > >> the man is feeding her. > >> >> And > >> >> if she does then she deserves what she > gets. Kenya > >> will get what it > >> >> deserves > >> >> and very soon. A good example is Russia > and its > >> oligarchs - all members of > >> >> the Forbes Richest. > >> >> > >> >> 3. Great leadership is necessary to grow > a > >> country. A leadership with > >> >> intestinal fortitude to say no under > pressure. Top > >> to bottom, > >> >> > >> >> 4. That the local mwananchi can invest in > their > >> own country and manage its > >> >> growth > >> >> > >> >> 5. That a great nation looks upon its > diaspora to > >> grow it - a la Israel > >> >> and > >> >> India > >> >> > >> >> 6. That a great nation does not wait to > be raped > >> twice - We seem to be > >> >> following a process that will guarantee > our raping > >> despite how Kenyan some > >> >> members of this committee think they are. > Its just > >> a matter of time before > >> >> they pick up their bags and leave. I > really do not > >> think that as a > >> >> national > >> >> planner I should be putting my eggs in > that > >> basket. > >> >> > >> >> Joe > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, > >> <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to > thoroughly study > >> the secret behind > >> >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E > in > >> general). There are some useful > >> >>> lessons! > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > > >> >>> >---- Original Message ---- > >> >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com > >> >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke > >> >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS > Ndemo, > >> ECONET Scandal aand Vested > >> >>> >Interests > >> >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 > -0700 > >> (PDT) > >> >>> > > >> >>> >>Lizette > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>I think that you have > racially > >> inclined your mind. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors > become > >> Kenyans? After getting good > >> >>> >friends to bribe their way to > this > >> country. And let me tell you that > >> >>> >the money the so called investors > are > >> using are Kenyan money not > >> >>> >money from foreign banks. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed > from > >> Kenyan banks. How much does the > >> >>> >most profitable telecomms > companies leave > >> in this country, very small > >> >>> >amount. We have Telecomms > companies which > >> are on their marks. They > >> >>> >have very inferior systems and > dont > >> actually deliver in service but > >> >>> >make billions and run away with > the > >> billions. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that > there are > >> Kenyans who are white, black > >> >>> >coloured and all but know that I > am a > >> mixed race Kenyan and really > >> >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to > suffer > >> because of bad policies from > >> >>> >people like PS > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>JM > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- > >> >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft > >> <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> > >> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com > >> >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions > >> <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> > >> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, > 2008 > >> 1:52:07 PM > >> >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS > Ndemo, > >> ECONET Scandal aand Vested > >> >>> >Interests > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth > here. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that > it can > >> survive on its own even through > >> >>> >local investment. Most times we > dont have > >> the funds. I do agree > >> >>> >though about the Government and > banks not > >> supporting local investors > >> >>> >with loans etc. They must start > giving > >> them the opportunity to setup > >> >>> >local expertise and turn them in > money > >> making ventures, if only they > >> >>> >wouldn't fleece their own > companies. > >> Even America, the giant needs > >> >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid > point > >> but use it for the best > >> >>> >interests of Kenya and its people > first > >> and foremost. Not just self > >> >>> >interest for the few. And by the > way > >> Kenyans come in all shapes, > >> >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So > please > >> don't generalise who is kenyan > >> >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall > directors and > >> owners are Kenyan and not > >> >>> >outsiders if I understand > correctly. When > >> we are taxed whether > >> >>> >individually or coorporately, the > money is > >> used for Kenya and Kenyans > >> >>> >and not for outsiders who > invested! > >> Forcing local partnership in > >> >>> >foreign owned companies has > >> >>> >> its negative and positive > effects. > >> >>> >>This needs to be look at more > >> seriously to make it a win-win > >> >>> >situation. It has been known in > the past > >> that foreign investors with > >> >>> >forced local partnership have > been > >> subjected to threats and > >> >>> >intimidation by the local > partners when > >> they wanted more than their > >> >>> >fare share, (given to them mind > you). Thus > >> the weariness o > >> >>> >>of being forced now. This > does not > >> attract any investor. But the > >> >>> >foreigners should not fleece the > country > >> either! > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive > >> critisism without being racially > >> >>> >inclined. Fight to make things > right no > >> matter what but without > >> >>> >pinpointing nationalities or > colours of > >> people. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina > >> <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> > >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>kictanet mailing list > >> >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> >>> > >> > >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>This message was sent to: > >> lfkraft(a)gmail.com > >> >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your > options at > >> >>> > >> > >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail. > >> >>> >com > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>-- > >> >>> >>Lizette Kraft > >> >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 > >> >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya > >> >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> kictanet mailing list > >> >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> >>> > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> >>> > >> >>> This message was sent to: > jmanthi(a)gmail.com > >> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> >>> > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Joseph Manthi > >> >> CEO > >> >> MEO Ltd > >> >> http://www.meoltd.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Sent from my mobile device > >> > > >> > Made in Kenya Network > >> > Apt. B-8, Elite Park > >> > Ole Odume Road > >> > P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 > >> > Nairobi. Kenya > >> > Tel: +254-20-3590451 > >> > Cel: +254-722-811171 > >> > Cel: +254-735-370840 > >> > www.madeinkenya.org > >> > > >> > http://www.bungesms.com > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > kictanet mailing list > >> > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > > >> > This message was sent to: > gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com > >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/gachuhi.anthony%40gmai… > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> This message was sent to: jwalu(a)yahoo.com > >> Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: bitange(a)jambo.co.ke > > Unsubscribe or change your options at > > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > This message has been scanned for viruses and > > dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is > > believed to be clean. > > --------------------------------------------- > > "easy access to the world" > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > --------------------------------------------- > "easy access to the world" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Re: [kictanet] What should the Investment Policy Be?
by mwananchi＠hushmail.com 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Walu, Asante for setting the stage for policy discussions on FDI as relates to ICT policy. First and foremost, it is important to offer views as to some of the real causes of local investors failing to meet capital requirements. The points on this need not be belaboured. I believe we are making a scapegoat out of the wrong parties in order to punish other legitimate local investors through arbitrary changes in investment policies. In all the mentioned cases of capital issues, it is quite clear it was the duty of the regulator to conduct due diligence on the bidding consortia financial capacities. Had the regulator conducted this duty, we would not have had bidding entities that were near bankruptcy or in virtual bankruptcy itself sailing past the pre qualification stage and somehow beating industry giants with trillions (not billions) of shillings in turnover complete with their international experience and expertise in operations including in Uganda, Tanzania and tens of other countries, and then failing to pay for licence fees for years as they use the licence as an "asset" to shop for funding to pay for it. It is a rather simple matter to conclude that if one has Ksh 100, in the bank that one cannot afford to write a check for Ksh 10000. This is why we should stop blaming local investors as a group and focus on these repeated failures to conduct due diligence. The insolvency of one such member of a consortium that last bid in the last major tender points to a complete failure in due diligence. Secondly inept and poor tendering procedures have led to credible international investors ditching Kenya. This results in bidding entities that lack the type of financials any major bank would be happy to work with. Why would international bidders who have succeeded across Africa and in our neighbouring countries keep being disqualified on suspect reasons while relatively unknown and untested non performers sail through with high marks only to disappoint? Why should bidders keep spending anywhere from US$500,000 to US$1m or more bidding when its indisputable that they are amongst the best in the world only for novices and unknowns in the industry to score so highly then fail to deliver to Kenyans for years on end? Even if the local investors had healthy financials, by virtue of being co-shareholders with international entities that no bank is eager to touch, they are as good as sunk when it comes to obtaining funding for capital intensive projects. We seem to quickly forget that when investment policy demanded 40% equity holding by local shareholders, it did not deter Vodafone and Vivendi from coming to Kenya with 60% stakes. If the opportunities are there, there will always be takers as long as one is assured of fair play in the process. Confidence once dented is a difficult thing to rebuild. The failure by the regulator to conduct due diligence and failures in tendering process are scaring away the type of international operators whose name recognition alone would be sufficient for local investors to walk into banks and obtain funding for their capital contributions. Take the findings for instance from the then named Public Procurement Complaints Review and Appeals Board in regards to the first SNO tender. "Taking into account the critical failure in evaluation by CCK and also the interference in the tender process and disclosure of information by CCK, we find that the procurement process has been seriously flawed and compromised," the board concluded. or An article in the Sunday Standard, "How Broke Company Won Tender", September 18 2005, citing KACC officials investigating the matter of the 3rd mobile licence tender before investigations were prematurely and suddenly interrupted by certain interests: "Initial investigations by the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission into the award of the license in 2003 show that two of the major shareholders in consortium were had financial difficulties at the time of the award. ... With the other partners not being financially stable, the consortium fell short of the minimum financial requirements by well over $80 million." Why is it that KACC is able to see what the regulator apparently did not see or realise? For these and other reasons we cannot continue to solely blame the vast majority of local investors. We must place blame failure on the lack of financial due diligence and failed tendering procedures that instead attract the types of international investors that banks would not feel comfortable dealing with due to their lack of a lengthy track record and weak financials that don't suit capital intensive projects. So let us look at the root causes, not the symptoms and tackle those root causes instead, majority of which lie within our institutions to resolve the problems. Foreigners while welcome to invest in Kenya should not be thought of as the number one solution when the problems that cause local investors problems lie within institutions and policies. That said views on FDI per ICT policies will be forthcoming separately. Peterson On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:37:09 +0000 John Walubengo <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >Hey Folks, > >I have lurked in the background for a while and like Wainaina I >got a bit lost in the exchanges. But I think one fundamental >thread in all this - despite the muddy exchanges - is the question >of how do want to engage with Foreign Investors? JM and others >may have a point here - despite their strong language. > >So maybe to bring benefit out of all these, we could indulge for a >day or two on the Policy we want as far as Foreign Direct >Investments (FDI) into our ICT industry are concerned. > >Correct me if am wrong but I believe the Government >position/policy on this has been that the Foreign investor MUST >incorporate a local investor at minimum ratio 20%(local) to >80%(foreign) ownership/equity. I think the members who feel that >this should be changed have cases/examples where the local >equity/investor failed to come up with their 20% capital and so >the opportunity for investment disappears. On the other hand, >other members feel that local investors are abundantly rich and >can come up with even over 50% of any capital/equity required to >invest in the industry. > >I honestly dont know which side is right and which one is wrong - >but what I do know is that there exists cases where the local >investors have failed to meet their capital requirements - hence >the need to review or interrogate whether this policy is >detrimental or indeed beneficial to our industry. > >Plse lets have objective comments that are devoid of personal >attacks and we shall make progress. Otherwise we begin to sound >like a broken record. > >walu. > > > > > > >--- On Thu, 10/16/08, gachuhi anthony <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> >wrote: > >> From: gachuhi anthony <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >> To: jwalu(a)yahoo.com >> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 8:16 AM >> Moderator >> Is there a way off having an online poll to know where we >> stand maybe >> from there we may be able to know who is for or against the >> policies >> being discussed. >> Then we can give reasons as I don't think this a list >> to decide who is >> more kenyan than the other its about what will affect us >> all >> Tony >> >> >> >> On 10/16/08, Wainaina Mungai >> <wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org> wrote: >> > Dear all, >> > >> > What is the desired outcome of this very energised >> thread? (Select one) >> > >> > A: That the PS (I&C) announce that policies shall >> be developed in an >> > open, transparent and consultative manner. He also >> must organise a >> > forum to kickstart non-emotive talks by mid-November. >> > >> > B: That PS Ndemo resigns and is replaced with a person >> of your choice. >> > >> > C: That the Econet licence, Kencall licence and >> related MoUs, >> > contracts signed by PS (I&C) be cancelled. >> > >> > D: That all stakeholders Govt., KICTANET, KIF, CA, etc >> organise an >> > "ICT Investment" policy forum to be held in >> Nairobi around mid- >> > November 2008. >> > >> > I hope this shall help us focus on defining and >> achieving a common >> > goal so that we desist from personal attacks on >> integrity, racial >> > profiling and so on... >> > >> > Good day, >> > Wainaina >> > >> > On 10/16/08, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these >> lessons do not include: >> >> >> >> 1. How to give away your national treasures - like >> bandwidth - to foreign >> >> entities just because they say they can not do any >> business with local >> >> entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you >> would never get a >> >> license >> >> to operate in UAE if this was your argument. >> Further to this lesson I >> >> would >> >> like to point to these additional countries that >> would laugh you out of >> >> town >> >> if you made that argument - US (some businesses >> like Airline, Military and >> >> Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & >> TV), India, Singapore, >> >> Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of >> Middle East, South >> >> Africa, >> >> Japan (especially Japan) >> >> >> >> 2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there >> with its eyes opened. >> >> When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very >> stupid woman, who >> >> knowing >> >> what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that >> the man is feeding her. >> >> And >> >> if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya >> will get what it >> >> deserves >> >> and very soon. A good example is Russia and its >> oligarchs - all members of >> >> the Forbes Richest. >> >> >> >> 3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a >> country. A leadership with >> >> intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top >> to bottom, >> >> >> >> 4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their >> own country and manage its >> >> growth >> >> >> >> 5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to >> grow it - a la Israel >> >> and >> >> India >> >> >> >> 6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped >> twice - We seem to be >> >> following a process that will guarantee our raping >> despite how Kenyan some >> >> members of this committee think they are. Its just >> a matter of time before >> >> they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not >> think that as a >> >> national >> >> planner I should be putting my eggs in that >> basket. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, >> <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study >> the secret behind >> >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in >> general). There are some useful >> >>> lessons! >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >---- Original Message ---- >> >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >> >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >> >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, >> ECONET Scandal aand Vested >> >>> >Interests >> >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 >> (PDT) >> >>> > >> >>> >>Lizette >> >>> >> >> >>> >>I think that you have racially >> inclined your mind. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors become >> Kenyans? After getting good >> >>> >friends to bribe their way to this >> country. And let me tell you that >> >>> >the money the so called investors are >> using are Kenyan money not >> >>> >money from foreign banks. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed from >> Kenyan banks. How much does the >> >>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave >> in this country, very small >> >>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which >> are on their marks. They >> >>> >have very inferior systems and dont >> actually deliver in service but >> >>> >make billions and run away with the >> billions. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are >> Kenyans who are white, black >> >>> >coloured and all but know that I am a >> mixed race Kenyan and really >> >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer >> because of bad policies from >> >>> >people like PS >> >>> >> >> >>> >>JM >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- >> >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft >> <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >> >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >> <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 >> 1:52:07 PM >> >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, >> ECONET Scandal aand Vested >> >>> >Interests >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can >> survive on its own even through >> >>> >local investment. Most times we dont have >> the funds. I do agree >> >>> >though about the Government and banks not >> supporting local investors >> >>> >with loans etc. They must start giving >> them the opportunity to setup >> >>> >local expertise and turn them in money >> making ventures, if only they >> >>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. >> Even America, the giant needs >> >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point >> but use it for the best >> >>> >interests of Kenya and its people first >> and foremost. Not just self >> >>> >interest for the few. And by the way >> Kenyans come in all shapes, >> >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please >> don't generalise who is kenyan >> >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and >> owners are Kenyan and not >> >>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When >> we are taxed whether >> >>> >individually or coorporately, the money is >> used for Kenya and Kenyans >> >>> >and not for outsiders who invested! >> Forcing local partnership in >> >>> >foreign owned companies has >> >>> >> its negative and positive effects. >> >>> >>This needs to be look at more >> seriously to make it a win-win >> >>> >situation. It has been known in the past >> that foreign investors with >> >>> >forced local partnership have been >> subjected to threats and >> >>> >intimidation by the local partners when >> they wanted more than their >> >>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus >> the weariness o >> >>> >>of being forced now. This does not >> attract any investor. But the >> >>> >foreigners should not fleece the country >> either! >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive >> critisism without being racially >> >>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no >> matter what but without >> >>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of >> people. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina >> <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>> >>kictanet mailing list >> >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>> >> >> >>> >>This message was sent to: >> lfkraft(a)gmail.com >> >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >>> >> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gma >il. >> >>> >com >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>-- >> >>> >>Lizette Kraft >> >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >> >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >> >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> kictanet mailing list >> >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>> >> >>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >>> >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmai >l.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Joseph Manthi >> >> CEO >> >> MEO Ltd >> >> http://www.meoltd.com >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from my mobile device >> > >> > Made in Kenya Network >> > Apt. B-8, Elite Park >> > Ole Odume Road >> > P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 >> > Nairobi. Kenya >> > Tel: +254-20-3590451 >> > Cel: +254-722-811171 >> > Cel: +254-735-370840 >> > www.madeinkenya.org >> > >> > http://www.bungesms.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > kictanet mailing list >> > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> > >> > This message was sent to: gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at >> > >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/gachuhi.anthon >y%40gmail.com >> > >> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: jwalu(a)yahoo.com >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo. >com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >This message was sent to: mwananchi(a)hushmail.com >Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwananchi%40hu >shmail.com -- Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy. http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4elLzQmCONnCaK286MVblIR30PBBcRba4a4pkA…

1 0

Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by eadera＠idrc.or.ke 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some useful lessons! > > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) > >>Lizette >> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you that >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >money from foreign banks. >> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very small >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. They >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service but >make billions and run away with the billions. >> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, black >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and really >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >people like PS >> >>JM >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ---- >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >> >> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even through >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >though about the Government and banks not supporting local investors >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to setup >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only they >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant needs >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just self >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is kenyan >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and not >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and Kenyans >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >foreign owned companies has >> its negative and positive effects. >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors with >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than their >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >> >> >> >> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail. >com >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Lizette Kraft >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>Nairobi, Kenya >>Cell: 0722-800362 >> >> >>

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MAKE ICTs WORK FOR DEVELOPMENT - STAND UP NOW, TAKE ACTION TODAY!
by Constance Georgina Khaendi Walyaro 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Poverty affects us all ‘Today is the UN’s official World Poverty Day. But every day is poverty day for the two billion people worldwide who have less than two dollars a day to live on. Of those, just under one billion live on just one dollar a day. In September 2000, 189 countries pledged to halve the number of those in poverty by 2015. When we look at the results so far, hope mixes with despair. Over 100 million children are still unable to go to school. Each year, 10 million children die before their 5th birthday. 40 million are living with HIV and AIDS, and 5 million die of it each year.’17th Oct 2004 Hilary Benn, UK Secretary of State for International Development Today, nearly half of the world’s people live in poverty, 70% are women. 50,000 people still die daily as a result of extreme poverty, and yet …..we have the power to change this. www.standagainstpoverty.org Last year, 43.7 million people around the world took part in the biggest global mobilization to end poverty and inequality, and to promote the Millennium Development Goals. This year, at a time of global financial crises and food shortages, more than ever we need to ACT together in order to send an even stronger message to push world leaders for more and better aid, debt cancellation, education for all, healthcare, trade justice, gender equality, public accountability and an end to extreme poverty by 2015. As the International Day for the Eradication of Poverty unfolds across the world we’re hoping to mobilize 1% of the global population - over 67 million people around the world to STAND UP and TAKE ACTION [17th - 19th Oct] against Poverty for the MDGs. Your actions count! 1. Tell your MP what you think: send SMS messages to the number 3454 with the word STAND UP. 2. Attend Global Gatherings: a series of parallel IYPF events held in over 30 different countries focused on mobilizing and engaging young professionals in activities and processes that are holding governments and leaders accountable and contributing to the achievement of the MDGs. www.iypf.org 3. Join Virtual Stand Up: log in from October 17th to 19th and interact with the world on MDGs; build a more peaceful, equitable and sustainable world. Facebook IYPF StandUp Global Gathering www.iypf.org We have the power and an obligation to make ICTs work for development! STAND UP NOW, TAKE ACTION TODAY, Make Poverty History! Constance Georgina Khaendi Walyaro Director, Chair FWG International Young Professionals Foundation constancewalyaro(a)iypf.org www.iypf.org Wainaina P. Mungai Make in Kenya Network wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org www.madeinkenya.org StandUp is an initiative of the Make Poverty History and Global Call to Action Against Poverty (GCAP) campaigns. IYPF is a GCAP Global Mobilization Partner. www.makepovertyhistory.org Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by eadera＠idrc.or.ke 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Joe, UAE is an example of managed FDI that enhances economic growth while ensuring direct benefits for its local investors and citizens. They create incentives for international investors (and local investors too), but manage it to ensure direct local benefits that is largely skewed to local beneficiaries. In some cases, it's abit extreme (and encourages absentee/ghost investors), but in general ensures locals benefit. what would be helpful here is drawing on FDI research and best practice policies in this area to inform our debate and keep it civil. I believe KICTANET or other parties can support an exercise to quickly collate such knowledge to inform our discourse. I'm sure such body of knowledge exists. Edith > > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:13:16 -0500 > >>Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these lessons do not >include: >> >>1. How to give away your national treasures - like bandwidth - to >foreign >>entities just because they say they can not do any business with >local >>entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you would never get a >license >>to operate in UAE if this was your argument. Further to this lesson >I would >>like to point to these additional countries that would laugh you out >of town >>if you made that argument - US (some businesses like Airline, >Military and >>Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & TV), India, >Singapore, >>Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of Middle East, South >Africa, >>Japan (especially Japan) >> >>2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there with its eyes >opened. >>When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very stupid woman, who >knowing >>what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that the man is feeding >her. And >>if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya will get what it >deserves >>and very soon. A good example is Russia and its oligarchs - all >members of >>the Forbes Richest. >> >>3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a country. A leadership >with >>intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top to bottom, >> >>4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their own country and >manage its >>growth >> >>5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to grow it - a la >Israel and >>India >> >>6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped twice - We seem to >be >>following a process that will guarantee our raping despite how >Kenyan some >>members of this committee think they are. Its just a matter of time >before >>they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not think that as a >national >>planner I should be putting my eggs in that basket. >> >>Joe >> >>On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some >useful >>> lessons! >>> >>> >>> > >>> >---- Original Message ---- >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand >Vested >>> >Interests >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) >>> > >>> >>Lizette >>> >> >>> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >>> >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >>> >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you >that >>> >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >>> >money from foreign banks. >>> >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very >small >>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. >They >>> >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service >but >>> >make billions and run away with the billions. >>> >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, >black >>> >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and >really >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >>> >people like PS >>> >> >>> >>JM >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >>> >Interests >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >>> >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even >through >>> >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >>> >though about the Government and banks not supporting local >investors >>> >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to >setup >>> >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only >they >>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant >needs >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >>> >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just >self >>> >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is >kenyan >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and >not >>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >>> >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and >Kenyans >>> >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >>> >foreign owned companies has >>> >> its negative and positive effects. >>> >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >>> >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors >with >>> >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >>> >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than >their >>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>> >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >>> >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >>> >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>> >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>kictanet mailing list >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >> >>> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail >. >>> >com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>-- >>> >>Lizette Kraft >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail. >com >>> >> >> >> >>-- >>Joseph Manthi >>CEO >>MEO Ltd >>http://www.meoltd.com >>

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by John Maina 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Nick Do you want coffee because I have said I am mixed race or ndugu you want to be honest? JM ----- Original Message ---- From: "nnesbitt(a)kencall.com" <nnesbitt(a)kencall.com> To: John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com>; kictanet-bounces+nnesbitt=kencall.com(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:14:41 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests John, John, John If you would like to meet a family that embodies what it means to be Kenyan, let's have a coffee sometime and I will introduce you to a few generations of my family... Come get to know me. Karibu. Nik Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 To: <nnesbitt(a)kencall.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: nnesbitt(a)kencall.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nnesbitt%40kencall.com

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by John Maina 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Edith One of the lessons is not locking outt locals. Its infact involving the locals like nobody has ever imagine JM ----- Original Message ---- From: "eadera(a)idrc.or.ke" <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> To: j.maina(a)ymail.com; eadera(a)idrc.or.ke Cc: kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:55:30 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some useful lessons! > > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) > >>Lizette >> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you that >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >money from foreign banks. >> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very small >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. They >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service but >make billions and run away with the billions. >> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, black >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and really >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >people like PS >> >>JM >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ---- >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >> >> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even through >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >though about the Government and banks not supporting local investors >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to setup >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only they >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant needs >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just self >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is kenyan >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and not >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and Kenyans >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >foreign owned companies has >> its negative and positive effects. >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors with >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than their >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >> >> >> >> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail. >com >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Lizette Kraft >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>Nairobi, Kenya >>Cell: 0722-800362 >> >> >>

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