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Re: [kictanet] What should the Investment Policy Be?
by mwananchi＠hushmail.com 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Walu, Asante for setting the stage for policy discussions on FDI as relates to ICT policy. First and foremost, it is important to offer views as to some of the real causes of local investors failing to meet capital requirements. The points on this need not be belaboured. I believe we are making a scapegoat out of the wrong parties in order to punish other legitimate local investors through arbitrary changes in investment policies. In all the mentioned cases of capital issues, it is quite clear it was the duty of the regulator to conduct due diligence on the bidding consortia financial capacities. Had the regulator conducted this duty, we would not have had bidding entities that were near bankruptcy or in virtual bankruptcy itself sailing past the pre qualification stage and somehow beating industry giants with trillions (not billions) of shillings in turnover complete with their international experience and expertise in operations including in Uganda, Tanzania and tens of other countries, and then failing to pay for licence fees for years as they use the licence as an "asset" to shop for funding to pay for it. It is a rather simple matter to conclude that if one has Ksh 100, in the bank that one cannot afford to write a check for Ksh 10000. This is why we should stop blaming local investors as a group and focus on these repeated failures to conduct due diligence. The insolvency of one such member of a consortium that last bid in the last major tender points to a complete failure in due diligence. Secondly inept and poor tendering procedures have led to credible international investors ditching Kenya. This results in bidding entities that lack the type of financials any major bank would be happy to work with. Why would international bidders who have succeeded across Africa and in our neighbouring countries keep being disqualified on suspect reasons while relatively unknown and untested non performers sail through with high marks only to disappoint? Why should bidders keep spending anywhere from US$500,000 to US$1m or more bidding when its indisputable that they are amongst the best in the world only for novices and unknowns in the industry to score so highly then fail to deliver to Kenyans for years on end? Even if the local investors had healthy financials, by virtue of being co-shareholders with international entities that no bank is eager to touch, they are as good as sunk when it comes to obtaining funding for capital intensive projects. We seem to quickly forget that when investment policy demanded 40% equity holding by local shareholders, it did not deter Vodafone and Vivendi from coming to Kenya with 60% stakes. If the opportunities are there, there will always be takers as long as one is assured of fair play in the process. Confidence once dented is a difficult thing to rebuild. The failure by the regulator to conduct due diligence and failures in tendering process are scaring away the type of international operators whose name recognition alone would be sufficient for local investors to walk into banks and obtain funding for their capital contributions. Take the findings for instance from the then named Public Procurement Complaints Review and Appeals Board in regards to the first SNO tender. "Taking into account the critical failure in evaluation by CCK and also the interference in the tender process and disclosure of information by CCK, we find that the procurement process has been seriously flawed and compromised," the board concluded. or An article in the Sunday Standard, "How Broke Company Won Tender", September 18 2005, citing KACC officials investigating the matter of the 3rd mobile licence tender before investigations were prematurely and suddenly interrupted by certain interests: "Initial investigations by the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission into the award of the license in 2003 show that two of the major shareholders in consortium were had financial difficulties at the time of the award. ... With the other partners not being financially stable, the consortium fell short of the minimum financial requirements by well over $80 million." Why is it that KACC is able to see what the regulator apparently did not see or realise? For these and other reasons we cannot continue to solely blame the vast majority of local investors. We must place blame failure on the lack of financial due diligence and failed tendering procedures that instead attract the types of international investors that banks would not feel comfortable dealing with due to their lack of a lengthy track record and weak financials that don't suit capital intensive projects. So let us look at the root causes, not the symptoms and tackle those root causes instead, majority of which lie within our institutions to resolve the problems. Foreigners while welcome to invest in Kenya should not be thought of as the number one solution when the problems that cause local investors problems lie within institutions and policies. That said views on FDI per ICT policies will be forthcoming separately. Peterson On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:37:09 +0000 John Walubengo <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >Hey Folks, > >I have lurked in the background for a while and like Wainaina I >got a bit lost in the exchanges. But I think one fundamental >thread in all this - despite the muddy exchanges - is the question >of how do want to engage with Foreign Investors? JM and others >may have a point here - despite their strong language. > >So maybe to bring benefit out of all these, we could indulge for a >day or two on the Policy we want as far as Foreign Direct >Investments (FDI) into our ICT industry are concerned. > >Correct me if am wrong but I believe the Government >position/policy on this has been that the Foreign investor MUST >incorporate a local investor at minimum ratio 20%(local) to >80%(foreign) ownership/equity. I think the members who feel that >this should be changed have cases/examples where the local >equity/investor failed to come up with their 20% capital and so >the opportunity for investment disappears. On the other hand, >other members feel that local investors are abundantly rich and >can come up with even over 50% of any capital/equity required to >invest in the industry. > >I honestly dont know which side is right and which one is wrong - >but what I do know is that there exists cases where the local >investors have failed to meet their capital requirements - hence >the need to review or interrogate whether this policy is >detrimental or indeed beneficial to our industry. > >Plse lets have objective comments that are devoid of personal >attacks and we shall make progress. Otherwise we begin to sound >like a broken record. > >walu. > > > > > > >--- On Thu, 10/16/08, gachuhi anthony <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> >wrote: > >> From: gachuhi anthony <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >> To: jwalu(a)yahoo.com >> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 8:16 AM >> Moderator >> Is there a way off having an online poll to know where we >> stand maybe >> from there we may be able to know who is for or against the >> policies >> being discussed. >> Then we can give reasons as I don't think this a list >> to decide who is >> more kenyan than the other its about what will affect us >> all >> Tony >> >> >> >> On 10/16/08, Wainaina Mungai >> <wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org> wrote: >> > Dear all, >> > >> > What is the desired outcome of this very energised >> thread? (Select one) >> > >> > A: That the PS (I&C) announce that policies shall >> be developed in an >> > open, transparent and consultative manner. He also >> must organise a >> > forum to kickstart non-emotive talks by mid-November. >> > >> > B: That PS Ndemo resigns and is replaced with a person >> of your choice. >> > >> > C: That the Econet licence, Kencall licence and >> related MoUs, >> > contracts signed by PS (I&C) be cancelled. >> > >> > D: That all stakeholders Govt., KICTANET, KIF, CA, etc >> organise an >> > "ICT Investment" policy forum to be held in >> Nairobi around mid- >> > November 2008. >> > >> > I hope this shall help us focus on defining and >> achieving a common >> > goal so that we desist from personal attacks on >> integrity, racial >> > profiling and so on... >> > >> > Good day, >> > Wainaina >> > >> > On 10/16/08, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these >> lessons do not include: >> >> >> >> 1. How to give away your national treasures - like >> bandwidth - to foreign >> >> entities just because they say they can not do any >> business with local >> >> entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you >> would never get a >> >> license >> >> to operate in UAE if this was your argument. >> Further to this lesson I >> >> would >> >> like to point to these additional countries that >> would laugh you out of >> >> town >> >> if you made that argument - US (some businesses >> like Airline, Military and >> >> Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & >> TV), India, Singapore, >> >> Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of >> Middle East, South >> >> Africa, >> >> Japan (especially Japan) >> >> >> >> 2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there >> with its eyes opened. >> >> When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very >> stupid woman, who >> >> knowing >> >> what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that >> the man is feeding her. >> >> And >> >> if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya >> will get what it >> >> deserves >> >> and very soon. A good example is Russia and its >> oligarchs - all members of >> >> the Forbes Richest. >> >> >> >> 3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a >> country. A leadership with >> >> intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top >> to bottom, >> >> >> >> 4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their >> own country and manage its >> >> growth >> >> >> >> 5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to >> grow it - a la Israel >> >> and >> >> India >> >> >> >> 6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped >> twice - We seem to be >> >> following a process that will guarantee our raping >> despite how Kenyan some >> >> members of this committee think they are. Its just >> a matter of time before >> >> they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not >> think that as a >> >> national >> >> planner I should be putting my eggs in that >> basket. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, >> <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study >> the secret behind >> >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in >> general). There are some useful >> >>> lessons! >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >---- Original Message ---- >> >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >> >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >> >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, >> ECONET Scandal aand Vested >> >>> >Interests >> >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 >> (PDT) >> >>> > >> >>> >>Lizette >> >>> >> >> >>> >>I think that you have racially >> inclined your mind. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors become >> Kenyans? After getting good >> >>> >friends to bribe their way to this >> country. And let me tell you that >> >>> >the money the so called investors are >> using are Kenyan money not >> >>> >money from foreign banks. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed from >> Kenyan banks. How much does the >> >>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave >> in this country, very small >> >>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which >> are on their marks. They >> >>> >have very inferior systems and dont >> actually deliver in service but >> >>> >make billions and run away with the >> billions. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are >> Kenyans who are white, black >> >>> >coloured and all but know that I am a >> mixed race Kenyan and really >> >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer >> because of bad policies from >> >>> >people like PS >> >>> >> >> >>> >>JM >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- >> >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft >> <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >> >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions >> <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 >> 1:52:07 PM >> >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, >> ECONET Scandal aand Vested >> >>> >Interests >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can >> survive on its own even through >> >>> >local investment. Most times we dont have >> the funds. I do agree >> >>> >though about the Government and banks not >> supporting local investors >> >>> >with loans etc. They must start giving >> them the opportunity to setup >> >>> >local expertise and turn them in money >> making ventures, if only they >> >>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. >> Even America, the giant needs >> >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point >> but use it for the best >> >>> >interests of Kenya and its people first >> and foremost. Not just self >> >>> >interest for the few. And by the way >> Kenyans come in all shapes, >> >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please >> don't generalise who is kenyan >> >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and >> owners are Kenyan and not >> >>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When >> we are taxed whether >> >>> >individually or coorporately, the money is >> used for Kenya and Kenyans >> >>> >and not for outsiders who invested! >> Forcing local partnership in >> >>> >foreign owned companies has >> >>> >> its negative and positive effects. >> >>> >>This needs to be look at more >> seriously to make it a win-win >> >>> >situation. It has been known in the past >> that foreign investors with >> >>> >forced local partnership have been >> subjected to threats and >> >>> >intimidation by the local partners when >> they wanted more than their >> >>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus >> the weariness o >> >>> >>of being forced now. This does not >> attract any investor. But the >> >>> >foreigners should not fleece the country >> either! >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive >> critisism without being racially >> >>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no >> matter what but without >> >>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of >> people. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina >> <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>> >>kictanet mailing list >> >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>> >> >> >>> >>This message was sent to: >> lfkraft(a)gmail.com >> >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >>> >> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gma >il. >> >>> >com >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>-- >> >>> >>Lizette Kraft >> >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >> >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >> >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> kictanet mailing list >> >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> >>> >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>> >> >>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >>> >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmai >l.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Joseph Manthi >> >> CEO >> >> MEO Ltd >> >> http://www.meoltd.com >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from my mobile device >> > >> > Made in Kenya Network >> > Apt. B-8, Elite Park >> > Ole Odume Road >> > P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 >> > Nairobi. Kenya >> > Tel: +254-20-3590451 >> > Cel: +254-722-811171 >> > Cel: +254-735-370840 >> > www.madeinkenya.org >> > >> > http://www.bungesms.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > kictanet mailing list >> > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> > >> > This message was sent to: gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at >> > >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/gachuhi.anthon >y%40gmail.com >> > >> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: jwalu(a)yahoo.com >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo. >com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >This message was sent to: mwananchi(a)hushmail.com >Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwananchi%40hu >shmail.com -- Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy. http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4elLzQmCONnCaK286MVblIR30PBBcRba4a4pkA…

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by eadera＠idrc.or.ke 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some useful lessons! > > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) > >>Lizette >> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you that >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >money from foreign banks. >> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very small >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. They >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service but >make billions and run away with the billions. >> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, black >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and really >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >people like PS >> >>JM >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ---- >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >> >> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even through >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >though about the Government and banks not supporting local investors >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to setup >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only they >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant needs >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just self >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is kenyan >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and not >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and Kenyans >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >foreign owned companies has >> its negative and positive effects. >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors with >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than their >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >> >> >> >> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail. >com >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Lizette Kraft >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>Nairobi, Kenya >>Cell: 0722-800362 >> >> >>

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MAKE ICTs WORK FOR DEVELOPMENT - STAND UP NOW, TAKE ACTION TODAY!
by Constance Georgina Khaendi Walyaro 17 Oct '08

17 Oct '08

Poverty affects us all ‘Today is the UN’s official World Poverty Day. But every day is poverty day for the two billion people worldwide who have less than two dollars a day to live on. Of those, just under one billion live on just one dollar a day. In September 2000, 189 countries pledged to halve the number of those in poverty by 2015. When we look at the results so far, hope mixes with despair. Over 100 million children are still unable to go to school. Each year, 10 million children die before their 5th birthday. 40 million are living with HIV and AIDS, and 5 million die of it each year.’17th Oct 2004 Hilary Benn, UK Secretary of State for International Development Today, nearly half of the world’s people live in poverty, 70% are women. 50,000 people still die daily as a result of extreme poverty, and yet …..we have the power to change this. www.standagainstpoverty.org Last year, 43.7 million people around the world took part in the biggest global mobilization to end poverty and inequality, and to promote the Millennium Development Goals. This year, at a time of global financial crises and food shortages, more than ever we need to ACT together in order to send an even stronger message to push world leaders for more and better aid, debt cancellation, education for all, healthcare, trade justice, gender equality, public accountability and an end to extreme poverty by 2015. As the International Day for the Eradication of Poverty unfolds across the world we’re hoping to mobilize 1% of the global population - over 67 million people around the world to STAND UP and TAKE ACTION [17th - 19th Oct] against Poverty for the MDGs. Your actions count! 1. Tell your MP what you think: send SMS messages to the number 3454 with the word STAND UP. 2. Attend Global Gatherings: a series of parallel IYPF events held in over 30 different countries focused on mobilizing and engaging young professionals in activities and processes that are holding governments and leaders accountable and contributing to the achievement of the MDGs. www.iypf.org 3. Join Virtual Stand Up: log in from October 17th to 19th and interact with the world on MDGs; build a more peaceful, equitable and sustainable world. Facebook IYPF StandUp Global Gathering www.iypf.org We have the power and an obligation to make ICTs work for development! STAND UP NOW, TAKE ACTION TODAY, Make Poverty History! Constance Georgina Khaendi Walyaro Director, Chair FWG International Young Professionals Foundation constancewalyaro(a)iypf.org www.iypf.org Wainaina P. Mungai Make in Kenya Network wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org www.madeinkenya.org StandUp is an initiative of the Make Poverty History and Global Call to Action Against Poverty (GCAP) campaigns. IYPF is a GCAP Global Mobilization Partner. www.makepovertyhistory.org Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by eadera＠idrc.or.ke 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Joe, UAE is an example of managed FDI that enhances economic growth while ensuring direct benefits for its local investors and citizens. They create incentives for international investors (and local investors too), but manage it to ensure direct local benefits that is largely skewed to local beneficiaries. In some cases, it's abit extreme (and encourages absentee/ghost investors), but in general ensures locals benefit. what would be helpful here is drawing on FDI research and best practice policies in this area to inform our debate and keep it civil. I believe KICTANET or other parties can support an exercise to quickly collate such knowledge to inform our discourse. I'm sure such body of knowledge exists. Edith > > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:13:16 -0500 > >>Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these lessons do not >include: >> >>1. How to give away your national treasures - like bandwidth - to >foreign >>entities just because they say they can not do any business with >local >>entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you would never get a >license >>to operate in UAE if this was your argument. Further to this lesson >I would >>like to point to these additional countries that would laugh you out >of town >>if you made that argument - US (some businesses like Airline, >Military and >>Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & TV), India, >Singapore, >>Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of Middle East, South >Africa, >>Japan (especially Japan) >> >>2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there with its eyes >opened. >>When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very stupid woman, who >knowing >>what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that the man is feeding >her. And >>if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya will get what it >deserves >>and very soon. A good example is Russia and its oligarchs - all >members of >>the Forbes Richest. >> >>3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a country. A leadership >with >>intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top to bottom, >> >>4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their own country and >manage its >>growth >> >>5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to grow it - a la >Israel and >>India >> >>6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped twice - We seem to >be >>following a process that will guarantee our raping despite how >Kenyan some >>members of this committee think they are. Its just a matter of time >before >>they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not think that as a >national >>planner I should be putting my eggs in that basket. >> >>Joe >> >>On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some >useful >>> lessons! >>> >>> >>> > >>> >---- Original Message ---- >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand >Vested >>> >Interests >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) >>> > >>> >>Lizette >>> >> >>> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >>> >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >>> >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you >that >>> >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >>> >money from foreign banks. >>> >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very >small >>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. >They >>> >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service >but >>> >make billions and run away with the billions. >>> >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, >black >>> >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and >really >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >>> >people like PS >>> >> >>> >>JM >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >>> >Interests >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >>> >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even >through >>> >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >>> >though about the Government and banks not supporting local >investors >>> >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to >setup >>> >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only >they >>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant >needs >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >>> >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just >self >>> >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is >kenyan >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and >not >>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >>> >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and >Kenyans >>> >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >>> >foreign owned companies has >>> >> its negative and positive effects. >>> >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >>> >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors >with >>> >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >>> >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than >their >>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>> >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >>> >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >>> >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>> >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>kictanet mailing list >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >> >>> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail >. >>> >com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>-- >>> >>Lizette Kraft >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmail. >com >>> >> >> >> >>-- >>Joseph Manthi >>CEO >>MEO Ltd >>http://www.meoltd.com >>

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by John Maina 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Nick Do you want coffee because I have said I am mixed race or ndugu you want to be honest? JM ----- Original Message ---- From: "nnesbitt(a)kencall.com" <nnesbitt(a)kencall.com> To: John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com>; kictanet-bounces+nnesbitt=kencall.com(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:14:41 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests John, John, John If you would like to meet a family that embodies what it means to be Kenyan, let's have a coffee sometime and I will introduce you to a few generations of my family... Come get to know me. Karibu. Nik Sent from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 To: <nnesbitt(a)kencall.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: nnesbitt(a)kencall.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nnesbitt%40kencall.com

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by John Maina 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Edith One of the lessons is not locking outt locals. Its infact involving the locals like nobody has ever imagine JM ----- Original Message ---- From: "eadera(a)idrc.or.ke" <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> To: j.maina(a)ymail.com; eadera(a)idrc.or.ke Cc: kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:55:30 AM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some useful lessons! > > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) > >>Lizette >> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you that >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not >money from foreign banks. >> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very small >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. They >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service but >make billions and run away with the billions. >> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, black >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and really >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from >people like PS >> >>JM >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ---- >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested >Interests >> >> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even through >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree >though about the Government and banks not supporting local investors >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to setup >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only they >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant needs >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just self >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is kenyan >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and not >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and Kenyans >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in >foreign owned companies has >> its negative and positive effects. >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors with >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than their >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >> >> >> >> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail. >com >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Lizette Kraft >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>Nairobi, Kenya >>Cell: 0722-800362 >> >> >>

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Re: [kictanet] Kenya opens door to foreign telecoms investors - From Ugandan
by mwananchi＠hushmail.com 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

JM, Only those who dislike other Kenyans would try to propagate such as part of an attempt to make your points of accountability and transparency irrelevant. We have seen some of their true colours come out through their actions. It is important that these matters come to the surface, they cannot be wishfully drowned. Ndugu yesterday there was an article about the problems PS Ndemo and others are ignoring while rushing to bring in foreigners. If they cannot see these as the signs of a larger juggernaut of what ails us in progressing to indigenous equity and wealth generation then it is time perhaps they accepted that policy making in the interests of Kenyans needs to be in more capable hands. We call on PS Ndemo to work with his counterparts in government to correct these problems ailing Kenyans before rushing to embrace foreigners as a "solution". Peterson Banks giving youth a raw deal Published on 15/10/2008 Politicians and the Government have failed to address the youth agenda. It seems like when the sun starts shinning on our politicians or when they get what they want, the youth are shoved aside. For a long time now, the youth agenda has not been addressed, with youth forced to fend for themselves. Critical issues affecting them are never addressed. Last year’s effort by the Government to introduce the youth fund was noble, but it got hijacked by profit hungry banks. The banks’ stringent measures and loan qualification requirements were unfriendly and discouraging. Why did the Government set up a youth fund without strict rules to govern it? http://www.eastandard.net/InsidePage.php?&id=1143997024&catid=17&a=1 On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:58:14 +0000 John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >Peterson > >And I think these people mistake me with someone in the diaspora. >I live and work in Kenya and purely live on my own business which >has passed alot and been featured as one of the most innovative >businesses around. > >So Alex, guess which one it is and tell me about yours > >JM > > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: "mwananchi(a)hushmail.com" <mwananchi(a)hushmail.com> >To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:10:41 PM >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya opens door to foreign telecoms >investors - From Ugandan > >Gichuru, > >Prior to asking your question you doubted whether Kenyans engaged >in holding a public servant to transparently account, actually >worked, actually resided in Kenya, actually contributed to >economic >growth and were only complainants incapable of creating effective >change. In doing so, I believe you answered your own question >before you had a chance to ask it. One can only conclude that your > >call for stories is not sincere. > >Promoting veiled stereotypes, while suggesting that Kenyans who >live in Kenya cannot stand up for their rights, will not detract >non-elitist Kenyans from ensuring that public servants accountably > >engage in service delivery to the Kenyan people. The suggestion >that people are layabouts who wake up one day and raise an issue >that does not affect them in anyway should be consigned to the >proper dustbin. Thank you. > >Peterson > >On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:17:05 +0000 gichuru(a)gmail.com wrote: >>I keep asking myself , how much change can you effect by >>complaining >>and criticizing the ones who are actually working? How many of >you >>criticizing the PS and other government initiative are in Kenya >>contributing to the economic growth? How many have tried running >a >>business in this country in the last 10 years and can testify to >>growth? >> >>I am not saying more cant be done, but appreciate what has been >>done..... But if you really have something to say a burning >desire >>to >>share, dont talk about the KLM story, KQ Story, we already know >>about >>them, lets hear about your story.. what are you doing or have you >>done? Lets judge for ourselves if you can deliver given a >>chance.... >> >> >> >>On 10/14/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>> Kenyans and other Africans, >>> >>> Yes, I agree. We have the money. But we need to organize to >stop >>> the hemorrhage of our resources. This is our moment to make our > >>voices >>> heard about our countries' economic sovereignty. What many of >>our >>> leaders are doing giving away our tangible and intangible >assets >>> is treasonous and inexcusable. >>> >>> In Uganda, my country, the president, his family and their >>lackeys >>> have turned themselves into a veritable mafia of commission >>agents >>> carrying water for all sorts of foreign interests. They >proclaim >>from >>> the rooftops how indigenous Ugandans are too poor and dumb to >>own and >>> manage businesses. Yet, there is plenty of evidence to the >>contrary. >>> Some of that evidence points to how foreigners, including South > >>Asians >>> who arrive in the country with only the shirts on their backs, >>are >>> provided with multi-million dollar loans/grants to finance pet >>> enterprises. Ugandans can only dream of such largesse. >>Understandably, >>> many of those foreign "investors" take the money -- pausing >only >>long >>> enough to wreck the business -- and run. A good example is >>Tristar, a >>> textile firm that government set up as a showcase of a >>successful >>> Africa Growth Opportunity Act inspired business, was handd on a > >>silver >>> platter to a pair of Sri Lankan briefcase businessmen with a >>$2.5 >>> million loan from the state-owned Uganda Development bank. >Their >>only >>> qualification was that they were "Indian", a nationality that >>Museveni >>> equates with a natural entrepreneurship. >>> >>> In addition to the free business and loan, the conmen were >>> vigorously and publicly supported by the President's office in >>> exploiting an all-female workforce (including sexually), >>recruited >>> deliberately from rural Uganda and kept in apartheid-era like >>hostels, >>> ostensibly because they would be too docile to rebel against >>their poor >>> working conditions. A parliamentary investigation was sparked >>when the >>> "Agoa girls," as the workers were patronizingly called, >>organized and >>> downed their tools. That's when the sordid details of the sorry > >>venture >>> emerged. >>> >>> The adage that "if you want to look for traitors, start at the >>> top" is all too true for our countries. With leaders such as >>these (and >>> silent lambs as us), is it any wonder that nearly every race >>holds us >>> in contempt and reaps fortunes out of our losses! >>> >>> Vukoni >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: [DigAfrica] Re: [africa-oped] Fwd: Re: [picta-kenya] >>Re: Kenya >>> opens door to foreign telecoms investors >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >>> From: "Robert Alai" <alai.robert(a)gmail.com> >>> Date: Mon, October 13, 2008 10:34 am >>> To: digafrica(a)yahoogroups.com, picta-kenya(a)yahoogroups.com >>> >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >>> >>> Matunda >>> >>> Kenyans have the money. >>> >>> France >>> Telekoms came to Kenya and bought Telkom Kenya but is being >>supported >>> by the Kenyan government. It doesnt have money upto now. >>> >>> Kencall >>> and all these foreigners claiming that Kenyans have no money >>came and >>> borrowed in Kenyan banks. Tell me which foreigners brought >their >>own >>> money. Including Safaricom which went to the NSE and put up a >>bond. >>> >>> Lets >>> not be cheated. Matunda, me and you and all people in Dig >Afrika >>and >>> PICTA wont have the opportunity to set up our ICT companies if >>Dr Ndemo >>> is allowed to go ahead. We must insist on local partnership and > >>its not >>> something we should be begging for. We must insist on it >>> >>> Regards >>> Alai >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 5:34 PM, nmatunda <matunda(a)hotmail.com> > >>wrote: >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >>> >>> --- In picta-kenya(a)yahoogroups.com, "Mike Theuri" >><mi.ke.the.u.r.i@...> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Matunda, >>> >>> I concur with your views and completely agree with the way the >>> Canadian banking industry has weathered the financial storm. >>During a >>> brief visit to Canada I noted that there were 5 major Canadian >>banks >>> and one major international institution (Europe's largest >>institution >>> by way of assets) operating in Canada. According to the WEF: >>"Canada >>> has the world's soundest banking system, according to a more >>recent >>> report released by the World Economic Forum. Canada's banks >>received a >>> score of 6.8 out of possible seven, ahead of the banks of five >>other >>> countries which received a score of 6.7 per cent." We are now >>seeing >>> the US rushing to regulate the banking sector and even going as > >>far as >>> taking ownership stakes in both US and foreign banks because >>Americans >>> interest and not that of foreigners is at stake. There are >>lessons to >>> be learned from this about the consequences of unplanned >>deregulation >>> ie ownership, operational etc in sectors key to the economy. >>> >>> That said we must closely focus on the issue of Kenya and the >>PS' >>> plan to invite foreigners with no conditions on local >ownership. >>My >>> original posting on this issue covered a number of varied >>issues, >>> it appears the discussion has taken on a life of its own after >>it was >>> shared on other forums and has morphed into a protracted battle > >>between >>> pro-PS types engaged in a concerted effort to silence the issue > >>and >>> individuals who despite their rather harsh and tough ways of >>getting >>> the point across raise valid points that are apparently >>unpalatable for >>> some. >>> >>> On Saturday, I received a message from an individual whom I >>shall >>> not name who has gotten rather cosy with the PS of late >>suggesting that >>> certain parties were out to reignite conflict in the nation >>through the >>> revelation of the PS' plan and the resulting debates on lists >>and that >>> I should play a participatory role in "helping them" squelch >the >>> "dissent". I responded saying that the individual was digging >in >>the >>> wrong place as there were no hidden dimensions to the issue >>other than >>> the policies mentioned and that Kenyans should be free to hold >>> individuals in public office to account without interference or >>> intimidation. It was disappointing to read such a message >hinged >>> with hints to unsavoury moments in our recent history coming >>from an >>> individual who once strongly stood for freedom of expression >and >>the >>> right to information. If other individuals have seen it fit to >>raise >>> the issues outside of Picta it is indeed within their rights as > >>Kenyans. >>> >>> Unfortunately the answer to Matunda's question is that there is >>> nobody standing up for Kenyans interests on this issue, we only > >>read in >>> the media about plans to gazette following alleged >consultations >>with >>> foreign stakeholders. There is hardly ever any justification >>made and >>> when it is sought, the PS has repeatedly used isolated but not >>> precedent setting incidents such as the one I mentioned. We all > >>recall >>> the Ksh 100m tax payer funded trip the Finance Minister and the > >>PS >>> amongst other made to the western hemisphere to court Diaspora >>> investors in 2007, only to display high handedness and refusal >>to >>> answer legitimate questions seeking assurances about the >ability >>of the >>> Diaspora to invest in our own country. >>> >>> As a writer observed: >>> http://www.kenyaimagine.com/Economy/Kenya-Finance-Minister- >>courts-investors-abroad.html >>> "Next was the matter of investment, especially that of Kenyans >>> abroad. However much investment opportunities are paraded, >>investors, >>> whether Kenyan or foreign, always have the same questions about > >>the >>> local environment with regard to; bureaucratic bottlenecks, >>regulatory >>> climate, corruption, and insecurity" >>> >>> When such questions were brought up the delegation brushed them >>> aside and refused to answer them. Today, we read about Ndemo >>appearing >>> to disregard the interests of Kenyans through his proposed >>policies and >>> calling for increased foreign participation in the Kenyan >>economy. This >>> is simply wrong, why is Ndemo rushing to make conditions better > >>for >>> foreigners but not exhibiting the same level of effort for >>Kenyans to >>> have a larger stake in the economy? >>> >>> Ndemo should instead be taking on the issues his delegation >>> brushed aside when questioned by would be Kenyan investors. The > >>PS >>> should put his country (Kenya) and its citizens first and that >>means >>> working for the common interests of Kenyans. Any Kenyan who >asks >>the PS >>> or the Government to justify and explain its position on >>> such contentious proposals should be given the opportunity to >>express >>> their views, not condemned and counter attacked as seems to be >>the case >>> now on a discussion list serving industry interests. Kenyans >>should not >>> stand by idly as non-progressive proposals are quietly drafted >>and made >>> binding to Kenyans without the process being open to critique >>and >>> public input. >>> >>> Mike >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:14 AM, nmatunda >>> >><http://../../../../post?postID=Nwl_acszxFkN4z3b2uNtU8XlfkXWMi8l7F >o >>VzSnzRChXPvqnkZb6vcvKEzgqRf67GjelW9IqJOAw> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Mike, >>> >>> I am with you 200% on this. >>> >>> Every country must always act in its self-interest; this move >by >>> the PS is deplorable and not in line with long term Kenyan >>interests, >>> especially in as a lucrative area as ICT. >>> >>> In my books, we invite foreigners for such things as (a) >>financing >>> (which by the way Kenyans have shown can be raised locally), >(b) >>> operations and management experience & knowledge transfer, (c) >>> relationships that we can leverage through any such joint >>ventures, >>> etc. Joint ventures can also cushion enterprises from predatory >>> illegalities, especially given our weak legal dispute >resolution >>> structures! Of the latter, remember when heads of state >>corporations >>> used to queue up with money bags to state house to prop up the >>Moi >>> excesses! Or when companies could be shaken down for political >>> donations at a whim! >>> >>> For me, a good (not ideal!) joint venture is one of the kind >>that >>> Kenya Airways went into with KLM, when KA had been run down by >>> politically connected individuals. KLM brought in management >and >>> operations experience, facilitated KA's access to markets and >>routes >>> that KA otherwise couldn't easily access and in the process the > >>KA >>> brand rose, as did profits and more! The investment has paid >>well for >>> Kenyans and KLM; a win-win. >>> >>> There is a lesson to be learnt from the current American >>financial >>> crisis with respect to experiences in Canada. This country has >>been >>> under pressure to deregulate its financial services sector for >>the >>> longest time. Banks have argued that they needed mergers to >>allow them >>> to compete globally; and that they needed global partners that >>would >>> help them grow and extend their reach. >>> >>> Canadian government have constantly refused mergers or the kind > >>of >>> deregulation the industry sought! Their argument: the interest >>of the >>> common person whose priority banks should be. >>> >>> Guess what? In the present crisis, Canada has come >substantially >>> well ahead of the US and others. And for what reason: they >stood >>> against unfettered deregulaion! and they stood up for the >>interest of >>> Canadians. >>> >>> I ask all yee this question: who is standing for the interest >of >>Kenyans in >>> this open invitation to exploitation? >>> >>> Dr Ndemo needs to be stopped, I am afraid! >>> >>> Unedited. >>> >>> Matunda Nyanchama >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >> >>Warm Regards >>-------------------------------------- >>Sam Gichuru >>CVO >> >>Register .COM, .co.ke, .NET, .ORG, .INFO and .BIZ domain names >for >>FREE. unlimited email addresses. Business Webhosting and Internet >>Marketing services for only Kshs. 1,000 a month. >> >>Ideas Africa Limited - The Web Design and Hosting Company >>Tel : 020-221199, 230663 - Cell: 0722-730565 >>Web: www.ideasafrica.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>kictanet mailing list >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >>This message was sent to: mwananchi(a)hushmail.com >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwananchi%40h >u >>shmail.com > >-- >Save hundreds on an Unsecured Loan - Click here. >http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4d88tmB31ffQ6YfI4lx9Rf7NLWb1ug >iNn2azUFjLf1hzBS4K/ > > >_______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >This message was sent to: j.maina(a)ymail.com >Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/j.maina%40ymai >l.com -- Click for air conditioner info, reduce energy costs, affordable prices. http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4dbgvjVFZ4bUCR6fShDMdauKf7s28Z7Xm4oEAC…

1 0

Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by mwananchi＠hushmail.com 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Tony, Your suggestion is good, however should a few hundred people make a binding decision on a matter as critical as this one when it affects millions of Kenyans? The issues at hand require wide consultation, some are so serious they might have to be destined for parliament where its a matter affecting ALL Kenyans and what's on the table seems to be working more for foreigners than Kenyans. The ball ultimately is in the PS' court for his to take immediate action and start considering the views of the wider public. I'm with you on the latter point. Peterson On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:16:22 +0000 gachuhi anthony <gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Moderator >Is there a way off having an online poll to know where we stand >maybe >from there we may be able to know who is for or against the >policies >being discussed. >Then we can give reasons as I don't think this a list to decide >who is >more kenyan than the other its about what will affect us all >Tony > > > >On 10/16/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina(a)madeinkenya.org> wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> What is the desired outcome of this very energised thread? >(Select one) >> >> A: That the PS (I&C) announce that policies shall be developed >in an >> open, transparent and consultative manner. He also must organise >a >> forum to kickstart non-emotive talks by mid-November. >> >> B: That PS Ndemo resigns and is replaced with a person of your >choice. >> >> C: That the Econet licence, Kencall licence and related MoUs, >> contracts signed by PS (I&C) be cancelled. >> >> D: That all stakeholders Govt., KICTANET, KIF, CA, etc organise >an >> "ICT Investment" policy forum to be held in Nairobi around mid- >> November 2008. >> >> I hope this shall help us focus on defining and achieving a >common >> goal so that we desist from personal attacks on integrity, >racial >> profiling and so on... >> >> Good day, >> Wainaina >> >> On 10/16/08, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these lessons do not >include: >>> >>> 1. How to give away your national treasures - like bandwidth - >to foreign >>> entities just because they say they can not do any business >with local >>> entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you would never >get a >>> license >>> to operate in UAE if this was your argument. Further to this >lesson I >>> would >>> like to point to these additional countries that would laugh >you out of >>> town >>> if you made that argument - US (some businesses like Airline, >Military and >>> Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & TV), India, >Singapore, >>> Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of Middle East, >South >>> Africa, >>> Japan (especially Japan) >>> >>> 2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there with its >eyes opened. >>> When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very stupid woman, >who >>> knowing >>> what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that the man is >feeding her. >>> And >>> if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya will get >what it >>> deserves >>> and very soon. A good example is Russia and its oligarchs - all >members of >>> the Forbes Richest. >>> >>> 3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a country. A >leadership with >>> intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top to bottom, >>> >>> 4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their own country and >manage its >>> growth >>> >>> 5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to grow it - a >la Israel >>> and >>> India >>> >>> 6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped twice - We >seem to be >>> following a process that will guarantee our raping despite how >Kenyan some >>> members of this committee think they are. Its just a matter of >time before >>> they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not think that >as a >>> national >>> planner I should be putting my eggs in that basket. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret >behind >>>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some >useful >>>> lessons! >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >---- Original Message ---- >>>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >>>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand >Vested >>>> >Interests >>>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) >>>> > >>>> >>Lizette >>>> >> >>>> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >>>> >> >>>> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting >good >>>> >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell >you that >>>> >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money >not >>>> >money from foreign banks. >>>> >> >>>> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does >the >>>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, >very small >>>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. >They >>>> >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in >service but >>>> >make billions and run away with the billions. >>>> >> >>>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, >black >>>> >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and >really >>>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies >from >>>> >people like PS >>>> >> >>>> >>JM >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>----- Original Message ---- >>>> >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand >Vested >>>> >Interests >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >>>> >> >>>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even >through >>>> >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do >agree >>>> >though about the Government and banks not supporting local >investors >>>> >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity >to setup >>>> >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if >only they >>>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant >needs >>>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the >best >>>> >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not >just self >>>> >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all >shapes, >>>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is >kenyan >>>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan >and not >>>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed >whether >>>> >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and >Kenyans >>>> >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local >partnership in >>>> >foreign owned companies has >>>> >> its negative and positive effects. >>>> >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >>>> >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign >investors with >>>> >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >>>> >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than >their >>>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>>> >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But >the >>>> >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >>>> >> >>>> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being >racially >>>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but >without >>>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >>>> >> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>kictanet mailing list >>>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >> >>>> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gma >il. >>>> >com >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>-- >>>> >>Lizette Kraft >>>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >>>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmai >l.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joseph Manthi >>> CEO >>> MEO Ltd >>> http://www.meoltd.com >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> Made in Kenya Network >> Apt. B-8, Elite Park >> Ole Odume Road >> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 >> Nairobi. Kenya >> Tel: +254-20-3590451 >> Cel: +254-722-811171 >> Cel: +254-735-370840 >> www.madeinkenya.org >> >> http://www.bungesms.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: gachuhi.anthony(a)gmail.com >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/gachuhi.anthon >y%40gmail.com >> > >-- >Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com > >_______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >This message was sent to: mwananchi(a)hushmail.com >Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwananchi%40hu >shmail.com -- Free information on a POS system that meets your needs. Click here. http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4dAhCV2vbbolLnKCVrx70LViDZftbnMt4v6y6B…

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Re: [kictanet] PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by mwananchi＠hushmail.com 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Wainaina, The issues are several but lets not muddy the waters by mixing up separate, distinct and in some of the ones you have listed misinterpreted issues to revert back to what the opponents of accountability and transparency did when they rushed in to silence, resulting in a very energised thread on issues that some feel very strongly about. Naturally some will share the same views as those below and others will disagree: >A: That the PS (I&C) announce that policies shall be developed in >an open, transparent and consultative manner. He also must organise a >forum to kickstart non-emotive talks by mid-November. PS Ndemo so far has defended his proposal and has not yielded an inch. The PS does not appear willing to incorporate alternative views into policy making, and has not indicated the way forward as yet. We thank him for responding however and ask him to remember that he serves the greater Kenyan public not foreign interests and in that light his proposal should be shelved for the sake of public input. Your suggestion is appropriate and the PS could also borrow a leaf from CCK who engage in wide reaching public consultations that invite parties to provide views in writing while also publishing them before policies changes are implemented. On a matter so critical as changes in local ownership reductions to ZERO percent wider public consultations should be held or in the alternate the cabinet and parliament can define this policy on behalf of all Kenyans. As a public servant the PS is duty bound to represent all Kenyans and not selective groups of Kenyans or foreigners (a matter that would run afoul of the law -- Public Officer Ethics Act). >B: That PS Ndemo resigns and is replaced with a person of your >choice. Nobody has clearly called for PS Ndemo's resignation, if Ndemo has received a specific request to do so he should let the public know. The executive arm of government makes appointments to the office of the PS, lets not twist issues of accountability and transparency into matters of partisan politics. We want a better Kenya than that, not a Kenya where one's own is the only acceptable choice regardless of whether one can carry out the job or not. Naturally if public servants feel that they are unable to serve the Kenyan public without favour and not just foreigners and special interests then they should make honourable decisions on whether to continue with that office or not. We are simply asking PS Ndemo to act in the interests of ALL Kenyans and not to do by assumption, to respect and uphold the rule of law so as to help Kenyans fight the rotten culture of impunity and to carry out the duties of his office diligently and to the best of his abilities. Naturally doing so does not grant one a licence to act as one deems fit while forgetting who one works for. >C: That the Econet licence, Kencall licence and related MoUs, >contracts signed by PS (I&C) be cancelled. 1. The Econet licence was cancelled by the Minister for I&C. Econet went to court in an attempt to overturn the decision and failed when the High Court through Justice Ibrahim Mohammed made a final ruling in the matter see HC1640/2004. The Econet licence was cancelled and thus remains cancelled as upheld by a court of law. We must respect our institutions, our laws and the judiciary if we hope to bury the rotten culture of acting with impunity kwenye kaburi la kusahau. 2. Kencall obtained its licence legally. It is not operating under the false pretence of operating on a valid licence that was cancelled. Kencall has helped put Kenya on the BPO map. Opportunities or relaxations in policy available to Kencall should also be availed to Kenyans serious about building our economy. There is no quarrel with Kencall from this quarter on this, there may be in others. To thwart further speculation PS Ndemo should name the foreign characters who have been meeting him in his office under circumstances that would amount to blackmailing a government official into submitting to their demands. 3. The MoUs are the matter of a tribunal appointed by the President. PS Ndemo and the Minister for Energy have not told Kenyans of the extent to which Kenyans were committed to. The MoU should be publicly made available and released. The case of MOUs with foreigners, just shows that the PS and other government officials are putting foreigners ahead of Kenyans. Is PS Ndemo willing to sign an MOU with Kenyans promising to work towards increasing their local ownership percentages in ICT firms? I think not, we should not be accountable to foreigners and fail to be accountable to our fellow citizens. Does the MOU Ndemo sign grant Kenyans preferential access to Libya's ICT sector? Kenyans want to know what is in this MOUs which by all indications to date are lop sided and favour foreigners and their nations. 4. Contracts or agreements signed under false pretences should be cancelled. In any case they are invalid under laws of the land as pertains to cancelled documents by public authority. The matter of an agreement that claimed to settle out of court a case that was already out of court before the sham agreement by way of a FINAL ruling should not be misused to subvert the rule of law and our judiciary. We must put a STOP to the culture of impunity and rampant disregard of the law and judiciary. If a public servant is sacked for upholding the rule of law, let it be so, Kenyans will respect them for standing up for what is right. >D: That all stakeholders Govt., KICTANET, KIF, CA, etc organise an >"ICT Investment" policy forum to be held in Nairobi around mid- >November 2008. > 5. Agreed to in principle, all stakeholders including public and the Diaspora should be formally invited. The policy forum should also involve friends of Kenya who realise the value of having Kenyans having increased ownership in the ICT sector more so fellow Africans who are investing in our economy. However Kenyans must drive the discussion, the PS should come to the forum with an open mind ready to incorporate the views of Kenyans. >I hope this shall help us focus on defining and achieving a common >goal so that we desist from personal attacks on integrity, racial >profiling and so on... Some of us obviously feel very impassioned and disturbed at the sheer nature of PS Ndemo's bulldozed actions. Personal and other attacks will not help us define proper policy, let us respect one another going forward. I have to agree with you on this point and ask the self appointed censors of non-concurring opinion to take note of what their actions exacerbated. Asante. Peterson >Good day, >Wainaina > >On 10/16/08, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Edith,There are some useful lessons - but these lessons do not >include: >> >> 1. How to give away your national treasures - like bandwidth - >to foreign >> entities just because they say they can not do any business with >local >> entrepreneurs. In fact I know this for a fact, you would never >get a license >> to operate in UAE if this was your argument. Further to this >lesson I would >> like to point to these additional countries that would laugh you >out of town >> if you made that argument - US (some businesses like Airline, >Military and >> Defense, Telecommunications (not ISP), Radio & TV), India, >Singapore, >> Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, the whole of Middle East, >South Africa, >> Japan (especially Japan) >> >> 2. How not be conned. Kenya seems to heading there with its eyes >opened. >> When a man approaches a woman, it would be a very stupid woman, >who knowing >> what a man is capable of, to accept the BS that the man is >feeding her. And >> if she does then she deserves what she gets. Kenya will get what >it deserves >> and very soon. A good example is Russia and its oligarchs - all >members of >> the Forbes Richest. >> >> 3. Great leadership is necessary to grow a country. A leadership >with >> intestinal fortitude to say no under pressure. Top to bottom, >> >> 4. That the local mwananchi can invest in their own country and >manage its >> growth >> >> 5. That a great nation looks upon its diaspora to grow it - a la >Israel and >> India >> >> 6. That a great nation does not wait to be raped twice - We seem >to be >> following a process that will guarantee our raping despite how >Kenyan some >> members of this committee think they are. Its just a matter of >time before >> they pick up their bags and leave. I really do not think that as >a national >> planner I should be putting my eggs in that basket. >> >> Joe >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM, <eadera(a)idrc.or.ke> wrote: >> >>> Anyone has taken the time to thoroughly study the secret behind >>> Dubai's tremendous growth? (U.A.E in general). There are some >useful >>> lessons! >>> >>> >>> > >>> >---- Original Message ---- >>> >From: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >To: eadera(a)idrc.or.ke >>> >Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand >Vested >>> >Interests >>> >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) >>> > >>> >>Lizette >>> >> >>> >>I think that you have racially inclined your mind. >>> >> >>> >>When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good >>> >friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell >you that >>> >the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money >not >>> >money from foreign banks. >>> >> >>> >>They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does >the >>> >most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, >very small >>> >amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. >They >>> >have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in >service but >>> >make billions and run away with the billions. >>> >> >>> >>Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, >black >>> >coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and >really >>> >sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies >from >>> >people like PS >>> >> >>> >>JM >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>----- Original Message ---- >>> >>From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> >>> >>To: j.maina(a)ymail.com >>> >>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions ><kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM >>> >>Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand >Vested >>> >Interests >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>Just my two pennies worth here. >>> >> >>> >>Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even >through >>> >local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do >agree >>> >though about the Government and banks not supporting local >investors >>> >with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to >setup >>> >local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if >only they >>> >wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant >needs >>> >investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the >best >>> >interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just >self >>> >interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all >shapes, >>> >sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is >kenyan >>> >and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and >not >>> >outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether >>> >individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and >Kenyans >>> >and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership >in >>> >foreign owned companies has >>> >> its negative and positive effects. >>> >>This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win >>> >situation. It has been known in the past that foreign >investors with >>> >forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and >>> >intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than >their >>> >fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o >>> >>of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But >the >>> >foreigners should not fleece the country either! >>> >> >>> >>Let us have some constructive critisism without being >racially >>> >inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but >without >>> >pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: >>> >>http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 >>> >> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>kictanet mailing list >>> >>kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >> >>> >>This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com >>> >>Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gma >il. >>> >com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>-- >>> >>Lizette Kraft >>> >>P.O. Box 18488, 00500 >>> >>Nairobi, Kenya >>> >>Cell: 0722-800362 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> This message was sent to: jmanthi(a)gmail.com >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at >>> >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmanthi%40gmai >l.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Joseph Manthi >> CEO >> MEO Ltd >> http://www.meoltd.com >> > >-- >Sent from my mobile device > >Made in Kenya Network >Apt. B-8, Elite Park >Ole Odume Road >P. O. Box 72031 - 00200 >Nairobi. Kenya >Tel: +254-20-3590451 >Cel: +254-722-811171 >Cel: +254-735-370840 >www.madeinkenya.org > >http://www.bungesms.com > >_______________________________________________ >kictanet mailing list >kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >This message was sent to: mwananchi(a)hushmail.com >Unsubscribe or change your options at >http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwananchi%40hu >shmail.com -- Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/Ioyw6h4dI2gfxcy5JhZSrwtoKGNxH89RgFtnknCdDUWY…

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Re: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests
by John Maina 16 Oct '08

16 Oct '08

Lizette I think that you have racially inclined your mind. When did KENCALL directors become Kenyans? After getting good friends to bribe their way to this country. And let me tell you that the money the so called investors are using are Kenyan money not money from foreign banks. They have come and borrowed from Kenyan banks. How much does the most profitable telecomms companies leave in this country, very small amount. We have Telecomms companies which are on their marks. They have very inferior systems and dont actually deliver in service but make billions and run away with the billions. Dada Lizette, we know that there are Kenyans who are white, black coloured and all but know that I am a mixed race Kenyan and really sad when our brotehrs have to suffer because of bad policies from people like PS JM ----- Original Message ---- From: Lizette Kraft <lfkraft(a)gmail.com> To: j.maina(a)ymail.com Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:52:07 PM Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: PS Ndemo, ECONET Scandal aand Vested Interests Just my two pennies worth here. Kenya is not an Island that it can survive on its own even through local investment. Most times we dont have the funds. I do agree though about the Government and banks not supporting local investors with loans etc. They must start giving them the opportunity to setup local expertise and turn them in money making ventures, if only they wouldn't fleece their own companies. Even America, the giant needs investors!!! You all have a valid point but use it for the best interests of Kenya and its people first and foremost. Not just self interest for the few. And by the way Kenyans come in all shapes, sizes, COLOURS, and creed. So please don't generalise who is kenyan and who is not!!! Kencall directors and owners are Kenyan and not outsiders if I understand correctly. When we are taxed whether individually or coorporately, the money is used for Kenya and Kenyans and not for outsiders who invested! Forcing local partnership in foreign owned companies has its negative and positive effects. This needs to be look at more seriously to make it a win-win situation. It has been known in the past that foreign investors with forced local partnership have been subjected to threats and intimidation by the local partners when they wanted more than their fare share, (given to them mind you). Thus the weariness o of being forced now. This does not attract any investor. But the foreigners should not fleece the country either! Let us have some constructive critisism without being racially inclined. Fight to make things right no matter what but without pinpointing nationalities or colours of people. On 10/7/08, John Maina <j.maina(a)ymail.com> wrote: http://www.wananchiforums.com/showthread.php?p=3150#poest3150 _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: lfkraft(a)gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lfkraft%40gmail.com -- Lizette Kraft P.O. Box 18488, 00500 Nairobi, Kenya Cell: 0722-800362

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