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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
by judy okite 05 May '07

05 May '07

Sir, why is my point dissected,till it doesnt make sense? Kind Regards, Okite --- kictanet-bounces+judyokite=yahoo.com(a)kictanet.or.ke <judyokite(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Then there mayb need to re-define 'cheap' ,because someone has to pay > the cost....Consumer? Kind Regards, > > On 5/5/07, Judy Okite <judyokite(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > No cost reduction/tax waiver on modems,poles,switches etc the basics > > of internet connection > > > > On 5/5/07, Judy Okite <judyokite(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses > > > are nt reviewed > > > > > > On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry(a)africanedevelopment.org> wrote: > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > > > > > I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is > > > becoming > > > > difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and > > > > especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and > > > > importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. > > > > Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have > > > > connectivity considerations factored in. > > > > > > > > For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to > > be > > > > commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should > > > be > > > > considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other > > > > amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org(a)kictanet.or.ke > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lucy Kimani > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM > > > > To: harry(a)africanedevelopment.org > > > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- > > > > CCKInternetStudyReport > > > > > > > > Kai: > > > > > > > > I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in > > > > point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies > > > > and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of > > > > course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I > > think > > > > the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives > > > > currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time. > > > > > > > > The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the > > Government > > > > should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government > > > > has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet > > > > while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage > > > > of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private > > > > sector must compliment each other. > > > > > > > > With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and > > > > the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into > > > > implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, > > and > > > > Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school > > > > during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from > > > > your end. > > > > > > > > LK > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is: > > > > > > > > > > Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and > > > > > only > > > > > increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a > > > > > competitor but a price sensitive user! > > > > > > > > > > You will have enough people now competing for the business of the > > > > > Government === Message Truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability -CCKInternetStudy Report
by jamesrege＠africaonline.co.ke 05 May '07

05 May '07

Walu, Your concern on affordability of internet access by rural communities is justified. I don't think fibre optics (being a point-to-point) network can benefit a majority of rural communities economically unless there is a seriously subsidized provision of the last-mile network. Thousands of schools and Government offices which are situated far away from the fibre optics paths will never sniff the benefits of broadband communications supplied through fibre optics pipe. Fibre optics, microwave and satellite media always complement each other, especially for restoration purposes. Kenya is lucky to have them all. Can Walu's concern be addressed in all the cases? On 5/3/07 9:01 AM, "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> wrote: > Day 5- Statistics on Affordability. > > I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships b/w > IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on today's > theme on affordability (multi-tasking > encouraged by internet technologies ...) > > and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma in > early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely development, but > at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) services be > affordable to the rural/average communities? > > Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by the > Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on the > street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, the > Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if the > monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average monthly > cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the average > Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way > beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable. > > The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet > Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too > expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing just 8% > of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in order to > make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans? > > 1 day deliberation on this one. > > walu. > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jamesrege%40africaonline.co.k e > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
by Judy Okite 05 May '07

05 May '07

Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed, no tax waiver On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry(a)africanedevelopment.org> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming > difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and > especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and > importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. > Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have > connectivity considerations factored in. > > For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be > commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be > considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other > amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage. > > Regards > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org(a)kictanet.or.ke > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Lucy Kimani > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM > To: harry(a)africanedevelopment.org > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- > CCKInternetStudyReport > > Kai: > > I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in > point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies > and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of > course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I think > the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives > currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time. > > The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government > should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government > has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet > while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage > of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private > sector must compliment each other. > > With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and > the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into > implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and > Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school > during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from > your end. > > LK > > > > My point is: > > > > Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and > > only > > increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a > > competitor but a price sensitive user! > > > > You will have enough people now competing for the business of the > > Government > > and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned > > cable > > or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward. > > > > Rgds > > > > Kai > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke(a)kictanet.or.ke > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Wainaina Mungai > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 > > To: kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- > > CCKInternetStudyReport > > > > Kai said; > >> The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money > >> starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. > >> ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as > >> the > >> private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!] > > > > Pricing > > I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as > > competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in the > > way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every > > consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant > > drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of > > regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition > > which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony > > services. > > > > > > The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case > > that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. > > For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose products > > and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in > > consumer needs. > > > > For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per > > month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This > > is > > a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such > > access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents per > > minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at the > > same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high > > probability > > that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates > > down > > to rural consumer. > > > > > > > > --- > > Wainaina Mungai > > http://www.madeinkenya.org > > > > SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present > > without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own > > needs. > > > > > >> > >> FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> [mailto:[email protected]] ON BEHALF > >> OF > >> Rebecca Wanjiku > >> SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 > >> TO: kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke > >> SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - > >> CCKInternetStudyReport > >> > >> > >> thanks Kai for the response, > >> we need many people responding to this issue, > >> > >> in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money > >> through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as > >> if > >> the government is competing and killing the profit margin, > >> > >> in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the > >> private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and > > some > >> PS. > >> that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be > >> mandatory) > >> > >> i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a private > >> secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar > >> survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m > >> > >> maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to > >> work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content > > and > >> all.. > >> > >> its just an opinion, its not absolute, > >> > >> lets hear as many voices as possible, > >> it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up, > >> > >> regards > >> > >> _KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF(a)KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with > >> our > >> rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to > >> educate > >> the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a > >> natural > >> way. > >> > >> What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it > >> is > >> > >> break even ... > >> > >> The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank > >> money > >> starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong > >> believe > >> that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The > >> private > >> sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private > >> companies > >> and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much > >> on > >> > >> the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information > >> and > >> communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% > >> international > >> .. > >> > >> Kai > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Joan Walumbe" > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - > >> CCKInternetStudy Report > >> > >> > >> > Walu, > >> > > >> > I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural > >> > communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think that > >> lack > >> > of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk > >> (who > >> > already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short > >> break > >> > in > >> > shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no > >> > demand > >> > for the internet among the residents what is the point? > >> > > >> > So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is their > >> a > >> > market that demands the service or is it a little of both? > >> > > >> > I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if > >> it > >> > >> > did > >> > not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics > >> on > >> > demand for internet access in rural areas? > >> > > >> > Joan Walumbe > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "John Walubengo" > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM > >> > Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK > >> > InternetStudy > >> > Report > >> > > >> > > >> > Day 5- Statistics on Affordability. > >> > > >> > I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust > >> relationships > >> > >> > b/w > >> > IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on > >> > today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking > >> > encouraged by internet technologies ...) > >> > > >> > and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting > >> Bungoma > >> in > >> > early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely > >> development, > >> > but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) > >> > services be affordable to the rural/average communities? > >> > > >> > Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap > >> by > >> > the > >> > Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on > >> the > >> > street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, > >> the > >> > Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if > >> the > >> > monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average > >> > monthly > >> > cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the > >> average > >> > Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes > >> way > >> > beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable. > >> > > >> > The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet > >> > Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too > >> > expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing > >> just > >> > 8% > >> > of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in > >> > order > >> > to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans? > >> > > >> > 1 day deliberation on this one. > >> > > >> > walu. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > kictanet mailing list > >> > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > > >> > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> Please unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/rebeccawanjiku%40yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> Rebecca Wanjiku, > >> journalist, > >> p.o box 33515, > >> Nairobi.00600 > >> Kenya. > >> > >> Tel. 254 720 318 925 > >> > >> blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> > >> -------------------- > >> > >> > >> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > >> Check out [LINK: > >> > > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X > > 3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-] > >> new cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >> -------------------- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke] kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> [LINK: http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet] > >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> Please unsubscribe or change your options at [LINK: > >> > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org] > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lkimani%40comnews.co.ke > > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using Communicatons Solutions LTD WebMail. > " " > http://www.accesskenya.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40africanedevelopment.o > rg > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/judyokite%40gmail.com > -- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA. "Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there."

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
by Judy Okite 05 May '07

05 May '07

Thnx Harry, to add on to Ur concern, as long as the ISP/IGO licenses are nt reviewed, no tax waiver On 5/5/07, Harry Hare <harry(a)africanedevelopment.org> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is becoming > difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure and > especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and > importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. > Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should have > connectivity considerations factored in. > > For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads soon to be > commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there should be > considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other > amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage. > > Regards > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org(a)kictanet.or.ke > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Lucy Kimani > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM > To: harry(a)africanedevelopment.org > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- > CCKInternetStudyReport > > Kai: > > I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in > point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of supplies > and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, and of > course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I think > the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives > currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time. > > The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the Government > should not be involved in infrastructure building because the Government > has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the internet > while the private sector has to have a business case to justify coverage > of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private > sector must compliment each other. > > With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government and > the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into > implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering dust, and > Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school > during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward from > your end. > > LK > > > > My point is: > > > > Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant and > > only > > increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a > > competitor but a price sensitive user! > > > > You will have enough people now competing for the business of the > > Government > > and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state owned > > cable > > or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward. > > > > Rgds > > > > Kai > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke(a)kictanet.or.ke > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > Wainaina Mungai > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 > > To: kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- > > CCKInternetStudyReport > > > > Kai said; > >> The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money > >> starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. > >> ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as > >> the > >> private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!] > > > > Pricing > > I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as > > competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in the > > way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every > > consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant > > drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of > > regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition > > which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony > > services. > > > > > > The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case > > that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. > > For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose products > > and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in > > consumer needs. > > > > For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per > > month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This > > is > > a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such > > access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents per > > minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at the > > same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high > > probability > > that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates > > down > > to rural consumer. > > > > > > > > --- > > Wainaina Mungai > > http://www.madeinkenya.org > > > > SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present > > without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own > > needs. > > > > > >> > >> FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> [mailto:[email protected]] ON BEHALF > >> OF > >> Rebecca Wanjiku > >> SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 > >> TO: kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke > >> SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - > >> CCKInternetStudyReport > >> > >> > >> thanks Kai for the response, > >> we need many people responding to this issue, > >> > >> in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money > >> through the private sector, so that the private sector does not see as > >> if > >> the government is competing and killing the profit margin, > >> > >> in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the > >> private sector so that some of the money invested is government's and > > some > >> PS. > >> that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be > >> mandatory) > >> > >> i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a private > >> secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a similar > >> survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m > >> > >> maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and PS to > >> work together and deliver quality market services, develop the content > > and > >> all.. > >> > >> its just an opinion, its not absolute, > >> > >> lets hear as many voices as possible, > >> it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up, > >> > >> regards > >> > >> _KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF(a)KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping that with > >> our > >> rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to > >> educate > >> the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand on a > >> natural > >> way. > >> > >> What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month until it > >> is > >> > >> break even ... > >> > >> The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank > >> money > >> starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong > >> believe > >> that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The > >> private > >> sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private > >> companies > >> and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus too much > >> on > >> > >> the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL information > >> and > >> communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% > >> international > >> .. > >> > >> Kai > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Joan Walumbe" > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - > >> CCKInternetStudy Report > >> > >> > >> > Walu, > >> > > >> > I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural > >> > communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think that > >> lack > >> > of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk > >> (who > >> > already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short > >> break > >> > in > >> > shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no > >> > demand > >> > for the internet among the residents what is the point? > >> > > >> > So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is their > >> a > >> > market that demands the service or is it a little of both? > >> > > >> > I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if > >> it > >> > >> > did > >> > not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics > >> on > >> > demand for internet access in rural areas? > >> > > >> > Joan Walumbe > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "John Walubengo" > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM > >> > Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK > >> > InternetStudy > >> > Report > >> > > >> > > >> > Day 5- Statistics on Affordability. > >> > > >> > I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust > >> relationships > >> > >> > b/w > >> > IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on > >> > today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking > >> > encouraged by internet technologies ...) > >> > > >> > and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting > >> Bungoma > >> in > >> > early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely > >> development, > >> > but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) > >> > services be affordable to the rural/average communities? > >> > > >> > Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap > >> by > >> > the > >> > Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on > >> the > >> > street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, > >> the > >> > Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if > >> the > >> > monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average > >> > monthly > >> > cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the > >> average > >> > Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes > >> way > >> > beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable. > >> > > >> > The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet > >> > Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too > >> > expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing > >> just > >> > 8% > >> > of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in > >> > order > >> > to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans? > >> > > >> > 1 day deliberation on this one. > >> > > >> > walu. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > kictanet mailing list > >> > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > > >> > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> Please unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/rebeccawanjiku%40yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> Rebecca Wanjiku, > >> journalist, > >> p.o box 33515, > >> Nairobi.00600 > >> Kenya. > >> > >> Tel. 254 720 318 925 > >> > >> blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> > >> -------------------- > >> > >> > >> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > >> Check out [LINK: > >> > > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X > > 3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-] > >> new cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >> -------------------- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke] kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > >> [LINK: http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet] > >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> Please unsubscribe or change your options at [LINK: > >> > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org] > >> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lkimani%40comnews.co.ke > > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using Communicatons Solutions LTD WebMail. > " " > http://www.accesskenya.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry%40africanedevelopment.o > rg > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/judyokite%40gmail.com > -- Judy Ann Okite, +254-721237507,+254-734252336 P.O. BOX 2228 00100, NAIROBI,KENYA. "Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there."

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- CCKInternetStudyReport
by Eric Osiakwan 05 May '07

05 May '07

Harry, thanks for adding your voice to this important rendition, this is one of our key recommendation in the Open Access study to the WorldBank but our leaders must ensure it happens because it is in our interest to make it happen. By the way, this is exactly how fiber grew in Sweden back in the Seventies and Eighties. Eric here On 5 May 2007, at 15:01, Harry Hare wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I was hoping to remain a spectator in this debate but looks that is > becoming > difficult to achieve. I think we need to look at ICT infrastructure > and > especially connectivity differently. We need to elevate the status and > importance of ICT infrastructure to the same level as roads and power. > Meaning any new infrastructural development in the country, should > have > connectivity considerations factored in. > > For instance when doing the feasibility study for the new roads > soon to be > commissioned and to be supported by the Chinese Government, there > should be > considerations of whether there is need to lay fiber alongside other > amenities such as power, lighting, walks ways and sewage. > > Regards > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: kictanet-bounces+harry=africanedevelopment.org(a)kictanet.or.ke > [mailto:kictanet-bounces > +harry=africanedevelopment.org(a)kictanet.or.ke] On > Behalf Of Lucy Kimani > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:24 AM > To: harry(a)africanedevelopment.org > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics onAffordability- > CCKInternetStudyReport > > Kai: > > I see your point, again I will use my previous domicile as a case in > point, the Federal Government is the biggest employer/buyer of > supplies > and services in the Washington DC metro area (Virginia, Maryland, > and of > course Washington DC) hence e-governance/e-learning is a must and I > think > the Kenyan government recognizes this from the various initiatives > currently on going, I just think its just a matter of time. > > The only point where you and i part ways is your stand that the > Government > should not be involved in infrastructure building because the > Government > has an obligation to ensure that all Kenyans have access to the > internet > while the private sector has to have a business case to justify > coverage > of any particular area, so I say both efforts Government and Private > sector must compliment each other. > > With all the initiates on the drawing boards of both the government > and > the private sector, I say let all move from the drawing boards into > implementation, Kai the computers at Kambaa Girls are gathering > dust, and > Bw. Ndemo, I signed up for both the digital village and digital school > during the KICC expo and I have not heard a word on the way forward > from > your end. > > LK > > >> My point is: >> >> Yu have limited room for infrastructure since the cost is constant >> and >> only >> increased usage can drop the price. The Government should NOT be a >> competitor but a price sensitive user! >> >> You will have enough people now competing for the business of the >> Government >> and the private users .. That forces prices down. Having a state >> owned >> cable >> or a state owned Telkom is in my opinion not the way forward. >> >> Rgds >> >> Kai >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke(a)kictanet.or.ke >> [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of >> Wainaina Mungai >> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:35 >> To: kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability- >> CCKInternetStudyReport >> >> Kai said; >>> The problem is when you create the demand and then some World >>> Bank money >>> starts to compete before you can recover the cost.. >>> ...The private sector needs the Government as a user there as >>> well as >>> the >>> private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!] >> >> Pricing >> I would like to assume that competition from government is as good as >> competition from other market players. The beauty of competition >> is in the >> way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every >> consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a >> significant >> drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some >> degree of >> regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce >> competition >> which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony >> services. >> >> >> The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services >> is a case >> that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect >> consumers. >> For internet services, we need many 'small scale' providers whose >> products >> and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to >> fluctuations in >> consumer needs. >> >> For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for >> DSL per >> month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day >> month. This >> is >> a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through >> such >> access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 >> cents per >> minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per >> day at the >> same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high >> probability >> that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such >> rates >> down >> to rural consumer. >> >> >> >> --- >> Wainaina Mungai >> http://www.madeinkenya.org >> >> SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the >> present >> without compromising the ability of future generations to meet >> their own >> needs. >> >> >>> >>> FROM: kictanet-bounces+kai.wulff=kdn.co.ke(a)kictanet.or.ke >>> [mailto:[email protected]] ON >>> BEHALF >>> OF >>> Rebecca Wanjiku >>> SENT: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:23 >>> TO: kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke >>> SUBJECT: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - >>> CCKInternetStudyReport >>> >>> >>> thanks Kai for the response, >>> we need many people responding to this issue, >>> >>> in my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB >>> money >>> through the private sector, so that the private sector does not >>> see as >>> if >>> the government is competing and killing the profit margin, >>> >>> in this regard, the government could come up with some MOU with the >>> private sector so that some of the money invested is >>> government's and >> some >>> PS. >>> that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it will be >>> mandatory) >>> >>> i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC funded a >>> private >>> secotor consortium to carry out some survey at USD 300k and a >>> similar >>> survey carried out by govts was valued at USD 3m >>> >>> maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for govt and >>> PS to >>> work together and deliver quality market services, develop the >>> content >> and >>> all.. >>> >>> its just an opinion, its not absolute, >>> >>> lets hear as many voices as possible, >>> it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come up, >>> >>> regards >>> >>> _KAI WULFF <KAI.WULFF(a)KDN.CO.KE>_ wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were hoping >>> that with >>> our >>> rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing them how to >>> educate >>> the parents (and make money with this) will increase the demand >>> on a >>> natural >>> way. >>> >>> What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 month >>> until it >>> is >>> >>> break even ... >>> >>> The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank >>> money >>> starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is my strong >>> believe >>> that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a market. The >>> private >>> sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the private >>> companies >>> and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still focus >>> too much >>> on >>> >>> the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL >>> information >>> and >>> communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and 10% >>> international >>> .. >>> >>> Kai >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joan Walumbe" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - >>> CCKInternetStudy Report >>> >>> >>>> Walu, >>>> >>>> I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural >>>> communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think >>>> that >>> lack >>>> of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk >>> (who >>>> already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short >>> break >>>> in >>>> shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there >>>> is no >>>> demand >>>> for the internet among the residents what is the point? >>>> >>>> So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is >>>> their >>> a >>>> market that demands the service or is it a little of both? >>>> >>>> I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural >>>> areas if >>> it >>> >>>> did >>>> not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/ >>>> statistics >>> on >>>> demand for internet access in rural areas? >>>> >>>> Joan Walumbe >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "John Walubengo" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK >>>> InternetStudy >>>> Report >>>> >>>> >>>> Day 5- Statistics on Affordability. >>>> >>>> I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust >>> relationships >>> >>>> b/w >>>> IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well >>>> as on >>>> today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking >>>> encouraged by internet technologies ...) >>>> >>>> and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting >>> Bungoma >>> in >>>> early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely >>> development, >>>> but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the >>>> (internet) >>>> services be affordable to the rural/average communities? >>>> >>>> Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered >>>> cheap >>> by >>>> the >>>> Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average >>>> Kenyan on >>> the >>>> street. In trying to get an objective measurement for >>>> affordability, >>> the >>>> Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other >>>> words, if >>> the >>>> monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average >>>> monthly >>>> cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the >>> average >>>> Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just >>>> becomes >>> way >>>> beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable. >>>> >>>> The report indicated that access through the more convenient >>>> Internet >>>> Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too >>>> expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing >>> just >>>> 8% >>>> of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in >>>> order >>>> to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans? >>>> >>>> 1 day deliberation on this one. >>>> >>>> walu. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> kictanet mailing list >>>> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke >>>> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>>> >>>> Please unsubscribe or change your options at >>>> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff% >>>> 40kdn.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke >>> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> Please unsubscribe or change your options at >>> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/rebeccawanjiku% > 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> Rebecca Wanjiku, >>> journalist, >>> p.o box 33515, >>> Nairobi.00600 >>> Kenya. >>> >>> Tel. 254 720 318 925 >>> >>> blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> -------------------- >>> >>> >>> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >>> Check out [LINK: >>> >> > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/ > new_cars.html;_ylc=X >> 3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-] >>> new cars at Yahoo! Autos. >>> -------------------- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> kictanet mailing list >>> [LINK: compose.php?to=kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke] >>> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke >>> [LINK: http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet] >>> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >>> >>> Please unsubscribe or change your options at [LINK: >>> >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina% >> 40madeinkenya.org] >>> > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina% > 40madeinkenya.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> Please unsubscribe or change your options at >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> Please unsubscribe or change your options at >> http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lkimani% >> 40comnews.co.ke > > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using Communicatons Solutions LTD WebMail. > " " > http://www.accesskenya.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/harry% > 40africanedevelopment.o > rg > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at http://kictanet.or.ke/ > mailman/options/kictanet/eric%40afrispa.org > Eric M.K Osiakwan Executive Secretary AfrISPA (www.afrispa.org) Tel: + 233.21.258800 ext 2031 Fax: + 233.21.258811 Cell: + 233.244.386792 Handle: eosiakwan Snail Mail: Pmb 208, Accra-North Office: BusyInternet - 42 Ring Road Central, Accra-North Blog: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/eric/ Slang: "Tomorrow Now"

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability -CCKInternetStudy Report
by Wainaina Mungai 05 May '07

05 May '07

Kai said; > The problem is when you create the demand and then some World Bank money > starts to compete before you can recover the cost > .The private sector needs the Government as a user there as well as the > private companies and consumers. [Only then will the prices drop!] Pricing I would like to assume that fair competition from government is as good as competition from other market players. The beauty of competition is in the way it forces the private sector to put a smile on the face of every consumer ;-) so as to guarantee revenue. I am convinced that a significant drop in prices results only from fierce competition and some degree of regulation. TESPOK and others fought for years to introduce competition which resulted in the current lower prices of internet and telephony services. The recent intervention of CCK on the pricing of mobile services is a case that proves that price controls may become necessary to protect consumers. For internet services, we need many small scale providers whose products and pricing would be more market-driven and responsive to fluctuations in consumer needs. For instance, an internet user paying KShs. 6,000 per month for DSL per month is actually incurring 14 cents per minute for a 30-day month. This is a great deal for any 24 hour user who may even make money through such access to the internet. The same user would be said to incur 28 cents per minute if s/he were to use the link for an average 12 hours per day at the same monthly rate. There may be a catch here but there is a high probability that more businesses can survive on such low rates and pass such rates down to rural consumer. --- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. > -------Original Message------- > From: Joan Walumbe <jwalumbe(a)globalnetcorps.org> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability -CCKInternetStudy Report > Sent: 04 May '07 17:46 > > Thanks Fatma, > > Much appreciated. > > Joan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fatma Bashir" <fbashir(a)cyberschooltech.com> > To: "Kenya ICT Action Network - KICTANet" <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on > Affordability -CCKInternetStudy Report > > > > Joan, > > > > I dont have statistics but working in the education sector, I see what KDN > > sees in the schools, schools will be the incubation ground for the demand > > for ICT in the rural areas (60% of schools are in rural areas). In about a > > year and a half years time the picture will start changing as high school > > graduates will be computer savvy and naturally opt to continue pursuing > > interests ranging from search of opportunities for enterpreneurship to > > formal job hunting using the internet or just keeping intouch!. > > > > Further more when we look at schools and their facilities, they can easily > > become the information centres for the communities around them and also > > offer affordable capacity building to the parents of the students nearby. > > Then they will start to look for ways to make some money and the > > international/local content picture will start to swing in our favor. > > > > Imagine one day you will go online and order your chopped sukuma wiki and > > packet of carrots from the local mama mbogo outside your estate, she will > > deliver to your house you will pay her on your way back home or GOd knows > > even online?. its the form form leaver who will have designed the website > > for her and its the nearby school that will have taught her computer 101. > > > > whats missing is the segment that should be dealing with Capacity Building > > in an informal way or even sensitizing and awareness ( ie we dont have to > > attend college proper we can just go to the neighbourhood place and learn > > some basics) I think that this is where the Lag might be felt by the likes > > of KDN...and others. > > > > Fatma > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joan Walumbe" <jwalumbe(a)globalnetcorps.org> > > To: <fbashir(a)cyberschooltech.com> > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 AM > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - > > CCKInternetStudy Report > > > > > > > Walu, > > > > > > I agree with you that affordablity is a factor especially for rural > > > communities when it comes to access to the internet. But I think that > lack > > > of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for the urban folk (who > > > already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) taking a short > break > > > in > > > shags to have the internet access when back home, but it there is no > > > demand > > > for the internet among the residents what is the point? > > > > > > So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create demand or is their a > > > market that demands the service or is it a little of both? > > > > > > I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the rural areas if it > > > did > > > not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some info/statistics > on > > > demand for internet access in rural areas? > > > > > > Joan Walumbe > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Walubengo" <jwalubengo(a)kcct.ac.ke> > > > To: <kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM > > > Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCK > > > InternetStudy > > > Report > > > > > > > > > Day 5- Statistics on Affordability. > > > > > > I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on Trust relationships > > > b/w > > > IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that as well as on > > > today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking > > > encouraged by internet technologies ...) > > > > > > and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber hitting Bungoma > in > > > early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and timely > development, > > > but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will the (internet) > > > services be affordable to the rural/average communities? > > > > > > Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is considered cheap by > > > the > > > Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the average Kenyan on > the > > > street. In trying to get an objective measurement for affordability, > the > > > Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In other words, if > the > > > monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if the average > > > monthly > > > cost for internet access is also around 100USD then obviously the > average > > > Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it just becomes way > > > beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable. > > > > > > The report indicated that access through the more convenient Internet > > > Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average incomes (too > > > expensive), while the same access through mobile phones was costing > just > > > 8% > > > of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs to be done in > > > order > > > to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans? > > > > > > 1 day deliberation on this one. > > > > > > walu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/fbashir%40cyberschooltech.com > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > This message has been scanned for viruses and > > dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is > > believed to be clean. > > --------------------------------------------- > > "easy access to the world" > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org >

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Re: [kictanet] kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
by Wainaina Mungai 05 May '07

05 May '07

>"but if there is no demand for the internet among the residents what is the point?" Maybe we need to look back at what models worked or failed at the turn of the millennium: WHAT WORKED In 1999, very few people believed there was enough demand to support 7 million enthusiastic mobile phone users in a country with less than 35 million people. The thirst for convenient communication services has proved overwhelming and is yet to be quenched. For the internet, the challenge is in creating an accessible network and making users connect at lowest possible set-up cost (just like GSM firms offer KShs. 2500 for mobile phone plus SIM). The internet services should also be modelled to meet varied user profiles (such as is the case with mobile service tariffs). WHAT DIDNT WORK Low levels of internet usage may be blamed on lack of an accessible network (landline or otherwise). Telkom Kenya failed to connect hundreds of thousands of landline phone subscribers who would have become a pool of voice and data service users continually bringing in revenue. They are now aggressively selling CDMA solutions to increase users and make money from usage rather than connection fees. This is the same problem that KPLC created by failing to see the future demand for electricity and relying heavily ion connection fees instead of usage fees. They are only now racing with time for subscribers under the Umeme Pamoja and even reaching out to slum dwellers with special tariffs. NETWORK OF USERS Some ISPs realised rather early that the real value of their network is in the increased connections of paying users. To many of us, the demand for internet access in rural areas may not be directly evident for now. It may however be seen in the thirst' for convenience, speedy communication and related value-added services. It may also be seen in the overwhelming demand for mobile telephony in the most remote and poor regions of Kenya. As has been stated earlier, we should not sell 'the internet' per se but should shift emphasis to the benefits of access for rural consumers especially the improvement of their quality of life. 2 cents worth... --- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report
by Wainaina Mungai 05 May '07

05 May '07

>> In my opinion, the government should find a way of using the WB money through the >> private sector, so that the private sector does not see as if the government is competing >> and killing the profit margin I think private sector should appreciate the role of govt in addressing needs of the disadvantaged via social programmes (e.g. education, health, fibre connectivity) and view the competition from government on the connectivity front as a challenge to model their businesses in the way that is responsive to rural market. I would prefer if; 1. Government uses the funds to provide business-friendly loans via a model similar to the youth enterprise fund. 2. A money-making outfit demonstrates a convincing "business for development" case or partners with a not-for-profit (e.g. CBO or other community-focussed group) if it is to access the WB-like grants. 3. Funds go to not-for-profit organisation to operate rural ICT centres on low-overheads (the focus here being on the consumer in rural areas). The WorldBank kind-of-money should go towards nurturing rural ICT SMEs that bring internet access rates to under a shilling per minute at the cybercafé end and even lower for a home or business user. I would expect a private sector outfit cushioned by government/WorldBank support should extend its break-even period to ensure the lowest prices at highest penetration levels. ...2 cents... --- Wainaina Mungai http://www.madeinkenya.org SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. > -------Original Message------- > From: John Walubengo <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudy Report > Sent: 04 May '07 13:16 > > Agreed with Becky, > > I expected more views on this touchy subject of > affordability. I do know we had technical hiccups but I > trust they are now over...so lets hear more from the > stakeholders - Consumers, Operators, Government, > Regulators, etc. > > walu. > > --- Rebecca Wanjiku <rebeccawanjiku(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > thanks Kai for the response, > > we need many people responding to this issue, > > > > in my opinion, the government should find a way of using > > the WB money through the private sector, so that the > > private sector does not see as if the government is > > competing and killing the profit margin, > > > > in this regard, the government could come up with some > > MOU with the private sector so that some of the money > > invested is government's and some PS. > > that way, part of the profits will be ploughed back (it > > will be mandatory) > > > > i remember during the OFC workshop, Kai shared how IFC > > funded a private secotor consortium to carry out some > > survey at USD 300k and a similar survey carried out by > > govts was valued at USD 3m > > > > maybe this can help reduce costs and provide a way for > > govt and PS to work together and deliver quality market > > services, develop the content and all.. > > > > its just an opinion, its not absolute, > > > > lets hear as many voices as possible, > > it is at these forums/discussions that great ideas come > > up, > > > > regards > > > > Kai Wulff <kai.wulff(a)kdn.co.ke> wrote: Hello, > > > > we leave it to the ISPs to create the demand. We were > > hoping that with our > > rural initiatives, like connecting schools and showing > > them how to educate > > the parents (and make money with this) will increase the > > demand on a natural > > way. > > > > What we have seen wit some Rural BTS, it takes about 12 > > month until it is > > break even ... > > > > The problem is when you create the demand and then some > > World Bank money > > starts to compete before you can recover the cost. It is > > my strong believe > > that wherever a device can be operated, there WILL be a > > market. The private > > sector needs the Government as a user there as well as > > the private companies > > and consumers. Only then will the prices drop! We still > > focus too much on > > the INTERNET, what most people need for a start is LOCAL > > information and > > communication .. so I would say: 90% local IP traffic and > > 10% international > > .. > > > > Kai > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joan Walumbe" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:26 > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on > > Affordability - > > CCKInternetStudy Report > > > > > > > Walu, > > > > > > I agree with you that affordablity is a factor > > especially for rural > > > communities when it comes to access to the internet. > > But I think that lack > > > of awareness is an even bigger factor. It's fine for > > the urban folk (who > > > already recognise the benefits to the internet etc.) > > taking a short break > > > in > > > shags to have the internet access when back home, but > > it there is no > > > demand > > > for the internet among the residents what is the point? > > > > > > So does KDN enter a market and then hope to create > > demand or is their a > > > market that demands the service or is it a little of > > both? > > > > > > I understand that Kai would not be venturing into the > > rural areas if it > > > did > > > not make any financial sense. Can anyone provide some > > info/statistics on > > > demand for internet access in rural areas? > > > > > > Joan Walumbe > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Walubengo" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:01 AM > > > Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability > > - CCK > > > InternetStudy > > > Report > > > > > > > > > Day 5- Statistics on Affordability. > > > > > > I acknowledge an interesting thread filtering in on > > Trust relationships > > > b/w > > > IGOs/ISPs...feel free to continue contributing on that > > as well as on > > > today's theme on affordability (multi-tasking > > > encouraged by internet technologies ...) > > > > > > and just to pick up from Kai's projection of KDN fiber > > hitting Bungoma in > > > early August 2007. This would be quite a welcome and > > timely development, > > > but at what cost to the consumer? To what extend will > > the (internet) > > > services be affordable to the rural/average > > communities? > > > > > > Affordability is a subjective term gven that what is > > considered cheap by > > > the > > > Bill Gates of this world is probably not so for the > > average Kenyan on the > > > street. In trying to get an objective measurement for > > affordability, the > > > Report pegged it on the national average incomes. In > > other words, if the > > > monthly average income in Kenya is around 100USD and if > > the average > > > monthly > > > cost for internet access is also around 100USD then > > obviously the average > > > Kenyan will not bother with accessing the Internet - it > > just becomes way > > > beyond their means or too expensive or not affordable. > > > > > > The report indicated that access through the more > > convenient Internet > > > Dial-up/Desktop services costed over 200% the average > > incomes (too > > > expensive), while the same access through mobile > > phones was costing just > > > 8% > > > of the average incomes (quite affordable). What needs > > to be done in > > > order > > > to make Internet Services more afforable to Kenyans? > > > > > > 1 day deliberation on this one. > > > > > > walu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kictanet mailing list > > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > > > > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kai.wulff%40kdn.co.ke > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/rebeccawanjiku%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Rebecca Wanjiku, > > journalist, > > p.o box 33515, > > Nairobi.00600 > > Kenya. > > > > Tel. 254 720 318 925 > > > > blog:http://beckyit.blogspot.com/ > > > > > === message truncated ===> > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)kictanet.or.ke > http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > Please unsubscribe or change your options at http://kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org >

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kictanet] Day 5 - Statistics on Affordability - CCKInternetStudyReport
by bitange＠jambo.co.ke 04 May '07

04 May '07

Dear All, I think you are getting it wrong on the World Bank Loan. The purpose of the loan is to stimulate demand a head of cheap bandwidth from the fibre cable. Areas that we thought needed stimulation include Rural ICT Centres, the Government, Universities and Colleges and BPOs. The procurement of subsidized bandwidth is to be done openely where all operators would have a chance. This does not in anyway compromise any private sector because they would be paid the market rate of bandwidth. The participation of Government in construction of Terrestrial fibre networks and the undersea cable was to fast track availability of cheap bandwidth that would in turn help the economy to grow faster. Secondly, we needed an open access model that would help SMEs in this country to compete with the big boys. With this network we shall see SMEs competing with the likes of Jamii, KDN on an equal footing. Thirdly, the private sector had failed to provide necessary infrastructure for economic development and finaly no operator was interested in rural Kenya until the Government made the business case for rural ICTs. In any case the Government has no interest in competing with the private sector. Our role is to facilitate development. Infrastructure in the ICT sector had lagged behind and what we have done is simply to facilitate its development and leave the private sector to compete in an open access platform. We have the obligation to enable every Kenyan citizen to play a role in economic development especially our SMEs that consititute 95% of businesses in this country. Therefore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with borrowing from the WB to stimulate demand for the investment we are making in the ICT sector. Some of the funds will be used to develop capacity to utilize ICTs and development of local content. In essense we are stimulating demand that would become consumers of private sector products. Regards Bitange Ndemo. ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world"

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Statistics on Affordability - CCK InternetStudy Report
by Mr President 03 May '07

03 May '07

Hi AllMy take on the affordability of the internet is basically simpleHow many rural home have electricityHow many have telephone linesHow many rural towns have cybers that earn an incom solely form internet services ?That is the basics, go to secondary issues like priorities for income usage??To buy food, kerosene etc or surf ?Taking I.T to the rural areas should be unde r the universal coverage policy and not for profit unless for value added services ama??Njenga M.P those who fear to fail.will never try to succeded,for to fail to plan is to plan to FAIL _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

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