June 2009 - KICTANet

Re: [kictanet] [Fwd: Re: Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues]
by Walubengo J 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

Ikua, Very true. Security procedures for many organisations is often considered an extra cost burden to be avoided. It actually requires compelling legislation to have it practiced and instituted - not just in BPO setups but accross other sectors as well. I long for the day when organisations file their (financial) audited accounts TOGETHER with their Information Systems (IS) Audits. walu. --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Evans Ikua <ikua(a)lpakenya.org> wrote: > From: Evans Ikua <ikua(a)lpakenya.org> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Fwd: Re: Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues] > To: jwalu(a)yahoo.com > Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 11:23 AM > Listers, > One area I see as a major challenge for our industry will > be Security (Data Protection). For any oversees company to > outsource their data processing to us, they will need to see > data protection legislation in place. This will assure them > that their data and information will not be vulnerable. I > suggest that the PS should fast track the Data Protection > Bill and also involve the industry in the process. > > KEBS is in the process of adopting certain ISO standards on > IT security but there is an urgent need for legislation in > this area. > > > --Evans Ikua > Linux Professional Association of Kenya > Tel: +254-20-2250381, Cell: +254-722 955 831 > Eagle House, 2nd Floor > Kimathi Street, Opp. Corner House > www.lpakenya.org > > > Quoting godera(a)skyweb.co.ke: > > > > > Dr.Ndemo, > > > > This is very encouraging. We at the Kenya BPO and > Contact Centre Society had > > initiated a similar sensitisation program with the > late Dr.Juma Okech who had so > > graciously agreed to facilitate the sensitisation > engagements with various > > government departments but as fate would have it,we > lost our dear friend. > > I can see the predicament on the argument on why other > organisations would also > > not ask for tax breaks thus creating a major headache > for government but I > > believe there are other incentives for local BPOs that > we can possibly work > > out,especially in the area of skills development. > > > > Gilda Odera > > Quoting bitange(a)jambo.co.ke: > > > >> Listers, > >> I have consulted with my colleagues in those > departments that are looking > >> at outsourcing and they are willing to discuss > with stakeholders to gain > >> better understanding of the trade. I will > therefore arrange for this > >> meeting towards the end of the month. > >> > >> One thing that may be difficult for us is the Tax > Break request for local > >> BPO organizations. If that is granted, > Treasury will be hard put to > >> explain why all other organizations should not get > the tax break. I > >> understand tax break for export of service but > locally sourced jobs, we > >> may be asking for too much. > >> > >> Ndemo. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Excellent point! I think we are making > a huge mistake especially in light > >> > of the post election violence focusing so > heavily on the foreign investors > >> > and the international BPO market. > >> > > >> > I have been following this discussion and as > a local BPO operator focused > >> > on the domestic market I can tell you we have > a difficult time convincing > >> > local companies to outsource and while all > this talk is good frankly I > >> > think we are missing the point. If the > point is development, then why > >> > aren't we focusing on how to develop this > industry as quickly and > >> > effectively as possible? In my view the > low hanging fruit are the > >> > domestic opportunities but we need a lot more > work in the form of > >> > government incentives to operators AND > businesses to promote and support > >> > the nascent outsourcing industry. Yes, > I read the post on the judiciary > >> > plans to outsource the transcription but I > think there is plenty more work > >> > that can be outsourced and if the government > wasn't so focused on the > >> > foreign investor and looked at the government > as a consumer of outsourced > >> > services and the local private sector we may > make more progress. My hope > >> > is that we can focus on creating the > environment that makes it conducive > >> > to manage and operate domestic BPOs which > will be building capacity while > >> > we manage and frankly repair our much > tarnished image abroad. Just like a > >> > company needs to look at reinvesting retained > earnings before it seeks > >> > outside financing, we need to look at what we > can do locally before we > >> > start tapping the international market, > especially given the heightened > >> > risk factors that Kenya faces since 2007/8. > >> > > >> > This means: > >> > 1. Government departments, agencies > outsourcing work to local companies > >> > and looking at outsourcing not as a way to > shed jobs but as a means to > >> > better manage scare resources. > >> > 2. Tax breaks for local BPO operators > and private companies contracting > >> > outsourcing services locally to incentivize > operator investment and > >> > company adaption of services in this > industry. Tax breaks should be > >> > immediate and not dependant on the entry or > attraction of foreign > >> > investors. Those of us currently in > operation are betting on Kenya. > >> > Instead of waiting we are putting our money > to work believing in the > >> > future of this country...I don't think we are > asking for too much when we > >> > ask the government to support our > development. > >> > 3. Less focus on what we do not have and a > greater focus on what we have. > >> > Skills, entrepreneurs and an optimistic view > of our country as well as a > >> > domestic market and potential to tap into the > larger regional market (EAC > >> > & COMESA). > >> > > >> > Finally, I am of the contrarian view: we have > the skill set, but because > >> > we are not willing to start where we are we > are asking students and > >> > graduates to pay more money to get additional > certification before we can > >> > get foreign investors interested in our > country...Frankly I think we place > >> > too much stock in certificates and paper > qualifications. If we ask these > >> > graduates to take another training class with > the promise of better > >> > opportunity they will...instead I suggest we > recognize the current > >> > intellectual capital that we have and those > of us in the industry focus on > >> > the job training and going back to the role > that government can play, > >> > obtain tax credits for this on the job > training. Lets us make sure these > >> > graduates have work and build on that instead > of creating additional > >> > hurdles to employment. > >> > > >> > > >> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day > 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues > >> > From: "S.Murigi Muraya" > <murigi.muraya(a)gmail.com> > >> > Date: Mon, June 8, 2009 5:17 > pm > >> > To: mkamuru(a)emanageafrica.com > >> > Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy > Discussions" <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> > >> > Priority: Normal > >> > > >> > > >> >> Let us also factor in on the job training > to improve our skill sets. > >> >> Software engineers become masters of > their craft by doing projects and > >> >> by exchanging (code and concepts) with > their peers. A classroom setting > >> >> possibly contributes to less than 10% of > all their success. > >> >> > >> >> There have been a number of comments in > these (BPO) discussions > >> >> comparing us with India, South Africa and > Mauritius. > >> >> > >> >> We cannot rely on the whims of those with > negative (but often valid) > >> >> perceptions towards us. We need to give > ourselves a chance that is of > >> >> our own creation. > >> >> > >> >> @ 40 Million (our 2010 population) > growing at 2.5% > >> >> (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html > >> >> and others estimate our population growth > @ almost 2.7% per annum) we > >> >> will add 1 Million Kenyans to our > population next year. 2030 is sure to > >> >> see us with a population of at least 60 > Million. > >> >> > >> >> With that in mind and given the fact > political instability is the > >> >> current (and unfortunately valid) excuse > to avoid Kenya, we would be > >> >> most ignorant NOT to focus most of our > BPO efforts internally. This will > >> >> build up LOCAL companies and on a > REGIONAL basis. This will build up > >> >> local talent who may otherwise be > demoralized for not being Western > >> >> enough to Foreign BPO companies. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> bitange(a)jambo.co.ke > wrote: > >> >>> Walubengo, > >> >>> With respect to capacity building, > the Government has done the > >> >>> following > >> >>> Established Multimedia University to > focus on IT Skills Development; > >> >>> Contracted the Central Bureau of > Statistics through CCK to conduct ICT > >> >>> Skills inventory in Kenya and Set up > a task force to look into Skills > >> >>> development as recommended by > MaKinsey in the just concluded Value > >> >>> Proposition. We are in the > process of appointing other stakeholders > >> >>> into > >> >>> the committee. > >> >>> > >> >>> Although we do not have a sector > strategy on Capacity building, the > >> >>> Governemnt takes issues of skills > development very seriously. This is a > >> >>> matter that NESC emphasizes as key to > our competitiveness. In this > >> >>> regard > >> >>> we look forward to a quick > finalization of the skills inventory and the > >> >>> task force recommendation. > >> >>> > >> >>> Regards > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Ndemo. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>> -Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, > Human Capacity Issues > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Morning all, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I trust you had a refreshing > weekend. Today I want to introduce the > >> >>>> theme > >> >>>> on Human Resource Development for > the BPO industry. The Researchers > >> >>>> found > >> >>>> that India, S.Africa and > Mauritius had a comprehensive inventory of > >> >>>> their > >> >>>> skill-base that was also > available for Validation by prospective > >> >>>> employers > >> >>>> and investors. Another > observation was ofcourse the sheer numbers of > >> >>>> Indian graduates (millions) that > made it the largest base of highly > >> >>>> skilled pool of graduates with > strong mathematical/scientific > >> >>>> orientation. > >> >>>> Whereas, Mauritius was > producing only 10,000 (university) graduates > >> >>>> per > >> >>>> year compared to Kenya's 30,000 > per year, Mauritius had the advantage > >> >>>> of > >> >>>> properly documenting their > national graduates database and marketing > >> >>>> it > >> >>>> appropriately to potential > clients in Europe/America. In addition, > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> Researchers noted that Mauritius > had a government funded but > >> >>>> Private-Sector oriented ICT > Academy that produced graduates > >> >>>> specificially > >> >>>> for the ICT industry. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> In Kenya, the Researchers > observed that apart from the lack of a > >> >>>> national > >> >>>> database on the available > skills/graduates, some of the BPO operators > >> >>>> were > >> >>>> engaged in vicious poaching > cycles where Agents trained in-house by > >> >>>> one > >> >>>> Operater are immediately hired by > the Competing Operators. It was > >> >>>> noted, > >> >>>> that an attempt has been made by > the .KE Government to create an > >> >>>> Industry-specific University > (Multimedia University College of Kenya) > >> >>>> to > >> >>>> address the HR gap but its > success or otherwise will remain to be seen > >> >>>> in > >> >>>> a few years time. The > Researchers also noted that Kenya's > >> >>>> English-speaking labor force had > an edge over the Indian one given > >> >>>> that > >> >>>> the average Kenyan had a > "neutral" accent unlike the Indian graduate > >> >>>> who > >> >>>> tended to have an "ethnic" accent > that often distracted the > >> >>>> Euro-American > >> >>>> > >> >>> %3 > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > ---------------------------------------------- > >> >>> This message has been scanned for > viruses and > >> >>> dangerous content by Jambo > MailScanner, and is > >> >>> believed to be clean. > >> >>> > --------------------------------------------- > >> >>> "easy access to the world" > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> kictanet mailing list > >> >>> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> >>> > >> >>> This message was sent to: murigi.muraya(a)gmail.com > >> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options > at > >> >>> > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.… > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> kictanet mailing list > >> >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> >> > >> >> This message was sent to: mkamuru(a)emanageafrica.com > >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> >> > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mkamuru%40emanageafric… > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Many thanks and best regards, > >> > > >> > > >> > Marilyn Muthoni Kamuru > >> > eManage Africa Limited > >> > P.O.Box 18136 00500 > >> > Nairobi, Kenya > >> > Tel: (254) 20 828 383; 2034 550 > >> > Personal Cell: (254) 0725 527 972, 0736 > 225 384 > >> > www.emanageafrica.com > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Many thanks and best regards, > >> > > >> > > >> > Marilyn Muthoni Kamuru > >> > eManage Africa Limited > >> > P.O.Box 18136 00500 > >> > Nairobi, Kenya > >> > Tel: (254) 20 828 383; 2034 550 > >> > Personal Cell: (254) 0725 527 972, 0736 > 225 384 > >> > www.emanageafrica.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > kictanet mailing list > >> > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > > >> > This message was sent to: bitange(a)jambo.co.ke > >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bitange%40jambo.co.ke > >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------- > >> > This message has been scanned for viruses > and > >> > dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and > is > >> > believed to be clean. > >> > > --------------------------------------------- > >> > "easy access to the world" > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------- > >> This message has been scanned for viruses and > >> dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is > >> believed to be clean. > >> --------------------------------------------- > >> "easy access to the world" > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> This message was sent to: godera(a)skyweb.co.ke > >> Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kictanet mailing list > > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > > > This message was sent to: ikua(a)lpakenya.org > > Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ikua%40lpakenya.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: jwalu(a)yahoo.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com >

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[Fwd: Re: Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues]
by Marilyn M. Kamuru 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

Excellent point! I think we are making a huge mistake especially in light of the post election violence focusing so heavily on the foreign investors and the international BPO market. I have been following this discussion and as a local BPO operator focused on the domestic market I can tell you we have a difficult time convincing local companies to outsource and while all this talk is good frankly I think we are missing the point. If the point is development, then why aren't we focusing on how to develop this industry as quickly and effectively as possible? In my view the low hanging fruit are the domestic opportunities but we need a lot more work in the form of government incentives to operators AND businesses to promote and support the nascent outsourcing industry. Yes, I read the post on the judiciary plans to outsource the transcription but I think there is plenty more work that can be outsourced and if the government wasn't so focused on the foreign investor and looked at the government as a consumer of outsourced services and the local private sector we may make more progress. My hope is that we can focus on creating the environment that makes it conducive to manage and operate domestic BPOs which will be building capacity while we manage and frankly repair our much tarnished image abroad. Just like a company needs to look at reinvesting retained earnings before it seeks outside financing, we need to look at what we can do locally before we start tapping the international market, especially given the heightened risk factors that Kenya faces since 2007/8. This means: 1. Government departments, agencies outsourcing work to local companies and looking at outsourcing not as a way to shed jobs but as a means to better manage scare resources. 2. Tax breaks for local BPO operators and private companies contracting outsourcing services locally to incentivize operator investment and company adaption of services in this industry. Tax breaks should be immediate and not dependant on the entry or attraction of foreign investors. Those of us currently in operation are betting on Kenya. Instead of waiting we are putting our money to work believing in the future of this country...I don't think we are asking for too much when we ask the government to support our development. 3. Less focus on what we do not have and a greater focus on what we have. Skills, entrepreneurs and an optimistic view of our country as well as a domestic market and potential to tap into the larger regional market (EAC & COMESA). Finally, I am of the contrarian view: we have the skill set, but because we are not willing to start where we are we are asking students and graduates to pay more money to get additional certification before we can get foreign investors interested in our country...Frankly I think we place too much stock in certificates and paper qualifications. If we ask these graduates to take another training class with the promise of better opportunity they will...instead I suggest we recognize the current intellectual capital that we have and those of us in the industry focus on the job training and going back to the role that government can play, obtain tax credits for this on the job training. Lets us make sure these graduates have work and build on that instead of creating additional hurdles to employment. Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues From: "S.Murigi Muraya" <murigi.muraya(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, June 8, 2009 5:17 pm To: mkamuru(a)emanageafrica.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Priority: Normal > Let us also factor in on the job training to improve our skill sets. > Software engineers become masters of their craft by doing projects and > by exchanging (code and concepts) with their peers. A classroom setting > possibly contributes to less than 10% of all their success. > > There have been a number of comments in these (BPO) discussions > comparing us with India, South Africa and Mauritius. > > We cannot rely on the whims of those with negative (but often valid) > perceptions towards us. We need to give ourselves a chance that is of > our own creation. > > @ 40 Million (our 2010 population) growing at 2.5% > (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html > and others estimate our population growth @ almost 2.7% per annum) we > will add 1 Million Kenyans to our population next year. 2030 is sure to > see us with a population of at least 60 Million. > > With that in mind and given the fact political instability is the > current (and unfortunately valid) excuse to avoid Kenya, we would be > most ignorant NOT to focus most of our BPO efforts internally. This will > build up LOCAL companies and on a REGIONAL basis. This will build up > local talent who may otherwise be demoralized for not being Western > enough to Foreign BPO companies. > > > > > > > bitange(a)jambo.co.ke wrote: >> Walubengo, >> With respect to capacity building, the Government has done the following >> Established Multimedia University to focus on IT Skills Development; >> Contracted the Central Bureau of Statistics through CCK to conduct ICT >> Skills inventory in Kenya and Set up a task force to look into Skills >> development as recommended by MaKinsey in the just concluded Value >> Proposition. We are in the process of appointing other stakeholders >> into >> the committee. >> >> Although we do not have a sector strategy on Capacity building, the >> Governemnt takes issues of skills development very seriously. This is a >> matter that NESC emphasizes as key to our competitiveness. In this >> regard >> we look forward to a quick finalization of the skills inventory and the >> task force recommendation. >> >> Regards >> >> >> Ndemo. >> >> >> >> >>> -Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, Human Capacity Issues >>> >>> Morning all, >>> >>> I trust you had a refreshing weekend. Today I want to introduce the >>> theme >>> on Human Resource Development for the BPO industry. The Researchers >>> found >>> that India, S.Africa and Mauritius had a comprehensive inventory of >>> their >>> skill-base that was also available for Validation by prospective >>> employers >>> and investors. Another observation was ofcourse the sheer numbers of >>> Indian graduates (millions) that made it the largest base of highly >>> skilled pool of graduates with strong mathematical/scientific >>> orientation. >>> Whereas, Mauritius was producing only 10,000 (university) graduates >>> per >>> year compared to Kenya's 30,000 per year, Mauritius had the advantage >>> of >>> properly documenting their national graduates database and marketing it >>> appropriately to potential clients in Europe/America. In addition, the >>> Researchers noted that Mauritius had a government funded but >>> Private-Sector oriented ICT Academy that produced graduates >>> specificially >>> for the ICT industry. >>> >>> In Kenya, the Researchers observed that apart from the lack of a >>> national >>> database on the available skills/graduates, some of the BPO operators >>> were >>> engaged in vicious poaching cycles where Agents trained in-house by one >>> Operater are immediately hired by the Competing Operators. It was >>> noted, >>> that an attempt has been made by the .KE Government to create an >>> Industry-specific University (Multimedia University College of Kenya) >>> to >>> address the HR gap but its success or otherwise will remain to be seen >>> in >>> a few years time. The Researchers also noted that Kenya's >>> English-speaking labor force had an edge over the Indian one given that >>> the average Kenyan had a "neutral" accent unlike the Indian graduate >>> who >>> tended to have an "ethnic" accent that often distracted the >>> Euro-American >>> >> %3 >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> --------------------------------------------- >> "easy access to the world" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kictanet mailing list >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet >> >> This message was sent to: murigi.muraya(a)gmail.com >> Unsubscribe or change your options at >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.… >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: mkamuru(a)emanageafrica.com > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mkamuru%40emanageafric… > -- Many thanks and best regards, Marilyn Muthoni Kamuru eManage Africa Limited P.O.Box 18136 00500 Nairobi, Kenya Tel: (254) 20 828 383; 2034 550 Personal Cell: (254) 0725 527 972, 0736 225 384 www.emanageafrica.com -- Many thanks and best regards, Marilyn Muthoni Kamuru eManage Africa Limited P.O.Box 18136 00500 Nairobi, Kenya Tel: (254) 20 828 383; 2034 550 Personal Cell: (254) 0725 527 972, 0736 225 384 www.emanageafrica.com

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues
by lily marusoi 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

My take on Q 7&8 We need to come up with a standardized national curriculum for the BPO sector a "finishing school" for those aspiring to work in the BPO sector. Having looked at the KBPO society training framework I feel there is a need to customise it to fit our Kenyan situation as some skills set were assumed to be obvious. When we talk of equiping the graduates, lets not also forget that we have so many other youths graduating from tertiary institutions with certificates and diplomas. Some major industry players have hinted that they prefer non graduates so long as they have the right attitudes, it is easier to train skills but not attitudes which is a major factor in the BPO sector. Regards Lily --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Judy Okite <judyokite(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Judy Okite <judyokite(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues To: lmarusoi(a)yahoo.com Cc: kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 11:50 AM to answer both Q 7&8 my suggestion on this.....all graduates,should be equipped to work in a BPO,at the time of their graduation. BPO specifics,should be entrenched,within the curriculum.....with this there will be no descrimination and I believe it will bring in quality to this market e.g in USIU,I know you have to do a foreign language....at some point in your 2years of your time with them...it doesnt really matter what course your taking and level. Kind Regards, On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> wrote: -Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, Human Capacity Issues Morning all, I trust you had a refreshing weekend. Today I want to introduce the theme on Human Resource Development for the BPO industry. The Researchers found that India, S.Africa and Mauritius had a comprehensive inventory of their skill-base that was also available for Validation by prospective employers and investors. Another observation was ofcourse the sheer numbers of Indian graduates (millions) that made it the largest base of highly skilled pool of graduates with strong mathematical/scientific orientation. Whereas, Mauritius was producing only 10,000 (university) graduates per year compared to Kenya's 30,000 per year, Mauritius had the advantage of properly documenting their national graduates database and marketing it appropriately to potential clients in Europe/America. In addition, the Researchers noted that Mauritius had a government funded but Private-Sector oriented ICT Academy that produced graduates specificially for the ICT industry. In Kenya, the Researchers observed that apart from the lack of a national database on the available skills/graduates, some of the BPO operators were engaged in vicious poaching cycles where Agents trained in-house by one Operater are immediately hired by the Competing Operators. It was noted, that an attempt has been made by the .KE Government to create an Industry-specific University (Multimedia University College of Kenya) to address the HR gap but its success or otherwise will remain to be seen in a few years time. The Researchers also noted that Kenya's English-speaking labor force had an edge over the Indian one given that the average Kenyan had a "neutral" accent unlike the Indian graduate who tended to have an "ethnic" accent that often distracted the Euro-American markets/clients. But this advantage is yet to be exploited - even as the Indians move up the BPO value chain and concentrate on non-accent related processes such as Software Engineering, Research (Financial, Medicine, etc), Product (e.g. Civil and Architectural) Design amongst others. Which leads us to todays questions. Qtn 7: How do we develop a national database on the wide-range of available ICT skill in Kenya - specifically which institution should be mandated to realise this, ensuring that such a database is kept upto date over the years? Qtn 8: What strategies should the country adopt to ensure a continuous supply of relevant and timely BPO-Specific skills? Please, lets have your comments flowing,dig yahjwalu starting now... walu. Encl: Synthesis 3 - HR Issues _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: judyokite(a)gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/judyokite%40gmail.com -- "Each of us is great insofar as we perceive and act on the infinite possibilities which lie undiscovered and unrecognized about us." James Harvey Robinson -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: lmarusoi(a)yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmarusoi%40yahoo.com

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues
by waudo siganga 08 Jun '09

08 Jun '09

Dear Catherine - That report (which dealt with the overall ICT workforce rather than just BPO) was handed over to the sponsor, USAID in Dec. 2006. I do not know what they did with it but I have attached a copy for those who may want to browse it. It contained some policy recomendations maybe some are still relevant. Kind Regards, Waudo On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 06:12 -0700, "Catherine Adeya" <elizaslider(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Apology I meant CSK (Computer Society of Kenya) conducted a study some years back and not CFSK (Computers for Schools Kenya). N ____________________________________________________________ From: Catherine Adeya <elizaslider(a)yahoo.com> To: elizaslider(a)yahoo.com Cc: kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 3:13:47 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues Tim et. al, If I am not wrong there have been attempts to find a way to develop a skills inventory in Kenya especially of IT or IT-related graduates. I do believe CFSK conducted a study a few years back, am not sure what became of the study. There were also attempts by others to develop such a database but some were curtailed due to lack of funding or good-will....if some of you are out here in cyberspace kindly do share so we build on what you have done and do not reinvent the wheel. Walu, you may remember some of the round-tables we were involved in some years ago. What we realized immediately is that the universities did not even know where their graduates were, they did not have an active alumni network to help them identify the sectors that were absorbing their graduates and where the gaps were as this could inform curriculum review. I know it is a long shot to expect the universities to do this but I think it would help if specific departments tried to collate this information. If the potential graduates knew it would be beneficial for them to share that information once they graduate then it may ease the process. Beneficial in two ways, to help with curriculum review and place share their names and details with those looking for the relevant skills....ok am waffling I know. I think the team was on to something there but we kind of dwelt too much on the successful South African model where they did an excellent study titled the SAITIS study as far back as 1998 and I think updated the study and implementation around 2004 or so, I can't remember off the top of my head. I know that relevant institutions came together to share their expertise in the study so that it was representative and collaborative. The studies basically covered a number of issues including the national IT Education and Training intiatives in SA (including schools, tertiary institutions, government and private sector iniatives. It attempted to categorize jobs and skills in the IT industry and looked at it in the context of global trends. There are similar studies elsewhere but I thought I may highlight on this one as I read about it years ago. Best, Nyaki ____________________________________________________________ From: Mwololo Tim <timwololo(a)gmail.com> To: elizaslider(a)yahoo.com Cc: kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 1:47:11 PM Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues Bwana Ndemo, These are good initiatives. However, I believe we need to look at the total secondary and tertiary education system to make sure it produces the skill sets we require for the BPO&O sector, depending on the strategy we take as a country. One university college, which is new and still struggling to "stand up", so to speak, will not do. Of course we need the skills inventory you talk about to know where we are so that we can take an appropriate strategy for skills development. I know KNBS is currently very busy focusing on the census and I am not sure they have adequate capacity to push several large projects simultaneously, which may mean delays here. We might therefore need to find ways of expediting this exercise. tim On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:31 PM, <[1]bitange(a)jambo.co.ke> wrote: Walubengo, With respect to capacity building, the Government has done the following Established Multimedia University to focus on IT Skills Development; Contracted the Central Bureau of Statistics through CCK to conduct ICT Skills inventory in Kenya and Set up a task force to look into Skills development as recommended by MaKinsey in the just concluded Value Proposition. We are in the process of appointing other stakeholders into the committee. Although we do not have a sector strategy on Capacity building, the Governemnt takes issues of skills development very seriously. This is a matter that NESC emphasizes as key to our competitiveness. In this regard we look forward to a quick finalization of the skills inventory and the task force recommendation. Regards Ndemo. > -Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, Human Capacity Issues > > Morning all, > > I trust you had a refreshing weekend. Today I want to introduce the theme > on Human Resource Development for the BPO industry. The Researchers found > that India, S.Africa and Mauritius had a comprehensive inventory of their > skill-base that was also available for Validation by prospective employers > and investors. Another observation was ofcourse the sheer numbers of > Indian graduates (millions) that made it the largest base of highly > skilled pool of graduates with strong mathematical/scientific orientation. > Whereas, Mauritius was producing only 10,000 (university) graduates per > year compared to Kenya's 30,000 per year, Mauritius had the advantage of > properly documenting their national graduates database and marketing it > appropriately to potential clients in Europe/America. In addition, the > Researchers noted that Mauritius had a government funded but > Private-Sector oriented ICT Academy that produced graduates specificially > for the ICT industry. > > In Kenya, the Researchers observed that apart from the lack of a national > database on the available skills/graduates, some of the BPO operators were > engaged in vicious poaching cycles where Agents trained in-house by one > Operater are immediately hired by the Competing Operators. It was noted, > that an attempt has been made by the .KE Government to create an > Industry-specific University (Multimedia University College of Kenya) to > address the HR gap but its success or otherwise will remain to be seen in > a few years time. The Researchers also noted that Kenya's > English-speaking labor force had an edge over the Indian one given that > the average Kenyan had a "neutral" accent unlike the Indian graduate who > tended to have an "ethnic" accent that often distracted the Euro-American %3 ---------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Jambo MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------- "easy access to the world" _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list [2]kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke [3]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: [4]timwololo(a)gmail.com Unsubscribe or change your options at [5]http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/timwol olo%40gmail.com References 1. mailto:bitange@jambo.co.ke 2. mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke 3. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet 4. mailto:timwololo@gmail.com 5. http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/timwololo%40gmail.com

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FW: Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues
by Walubengo J 08 Jun '09

08 Jun '09

from MM --- On Mon, 6/8/09, muriuki mureithi <mureithi(a)summitstrategies.co.ke> wrote: Please send this to the list - my mail was rejected by the system that it is spam ------- Hi listers >From the researcher's brief, it is very clear that Kenya cannot compete with India if the sheer volume of skilled resource is the determinant for market penetration. There is another way however, it is time we evaluate our strength and focus on a niche market. This way we can put our human resource base development efforts to considerable advantage. What is our niche or what could be our niche? Do we know? On the specific question of a database, I suspect one institution may not adequately manage the database largely due to the limited mandate. A way forward to categorise the human resource skills into a) academic skills 2) industrial skills 3) in-house specialised skills. Under a) the ministries of education or one of its institutions has or should have a mandate to keep track of what goes through its institutions of tertiary or higher learning. Under b) ministry of labour and hopefully Department of Industrial Training should have a database because they have oversight on industrial training. This would also strengthen the capacity of those institutions to do what they should do and mandated to do sustainably Cheers muriuki Mureithi

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Fwd: [AfrISPA.Discuss] US cuts off 'criminal' ISP
by Brian Munyao Longwe 08 Jun '09

08 Jun '09

FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Charles Amega-Selorm <cas(a)internetresearch.com.gh> Date: Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 8:42 PM Subject: [AfrISPA.Discuss] US cuts off 'criminal' ISP To: members(a)gispa.org.gh, discuss(a)afrispa.org US cuts off 'criminal' net firm An American ISP allegedly involved in distributing spam and images of child abuse has been thrown off the net. The US Federal Trade Commission asked for Pricewert LLC's net links to be severed after it had gathered evidence of the firm's 'criminal' connections. The FTC alleges that Pricewert had created one of the "leading US-based havens for illegal, malicious, and harmful content". Pricewert denied the allegations and said it would fight them in court. Legal fight In an official complaint filed in a San Jose Federal court, the FTC described Pricewert as a "rogue" or "black hat" ISP that acted as a hosting centre for many hi-tech criminals. The FTC alleges that Pricewert was paid to host "child pornography, botnet command and control servers, spyware, viruses, trojans, phishing-related sites, illegal online pharmacies, investment and other web-based scams". The evidence against Pricewert was gathered with the help of Nasa's computer crime division, Symantec, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, as well as groups such as Spamhaus and the Shadowserver Foundation. In its statement accompanying its filing, the FTC said its complaint was "not a finding or ruling that the defendant has actually violated the law". That, it said, would be decided by a court. A preliminary hearing will be heard on 15 June. So far, the FTC has not been able to identify who was behind Pricewert. Although its servers are based in the US, it is registered as a business in Belize and many of its employees are thought to be located in Eastern Europe. Talking to technology news site Network World, a spokesman for Pricewert said the action was "unfair" and it would take legal action to defend itself. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8084726.stm -- Charles Amega-Selorm Research Associate Internet Research Tel: +233-28-7297327 Fax: +233-21-258811 PMB 208, Accra-North http://www.internetresearch.com.gh To unsubscribe send a mail to: imailsrv(a)afrispa.org. Type the following in the body of your mail (not header): "Unsubscribe discuss" (without quotes). This List is operated by ZAnet Internet Services: www.zanet.co.za on behalf of www.afrispa.org. For any List Admin queries send mail to William(a)zanet.co.za -- Brian Munyao Longwe e-mail: blongwe(a)gmail.com cell: + 254 722 518 744 blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com

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Re: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues
by lily marusoi 08 Jun '09

08 Jun '09

Hi Walu, Indeed we had a very refreshing weekend. To suggest on what strategies the country should adopt to ensure a continous supply of relevant and timely BPO specific skills: 1. --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Walubengo J <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> wrote: From: Walubengo J <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> Subject: [kictanet] Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, HR Issues To: lmarusoi(a)yahoo.com Cc: kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:06 AM -Day 5 of 10- BPO Discussions, Human Capacity Issues Morning all, I trust you had a refreshing weekend. Today I want to introduce the theme on Human Resource Development for the BPO industry. The Researchers found that India, S.Africa and Mauritius had a comprehensive inventory of their skill-base that was also available for Validation by prospective employers and investors. Another observation was ofcourse the sheer numbers of Indian graduates (millions) that made it the largest base of highly skilled pool of graduates with strong mathematical/scientific orientation. Whereas, Mauritius was producing only 10,000 (university) graduates per year compared to Kenya's 30,000 per year, Mauritius had the advantage of properly documenting their national graduates database and marketing it appropriately to potential clients in Europe/America. In addition, the Researchers noted that Mauritius had a government funded but Private-Sector oriented ICT Academy that produced graduates specificially for the ICT industry. In Kenya, the Researchers observed that apart from the lack of a national database on the available skills/graduates, some of the BPO operators were engaged in vicious poaching cycles where Agents trained in-house by one Operater are immediately hired by the Competing Operators. It was noted, that an attempt has been made by the .KE Government to create an Industry-specific University (Multimedia University College of Kenya) to address the HR gap but its success or otherwise will remain to be seen in a few years time. The Researchers also noted that Kenya's English-speaking labor force had an edge over the Indian one given that the average Kenyan had a "neutral" accent unlike the Indian graduate who tended to have an "ethnic" accent that often distracted the Euro-American markets/clients. But this advantage is yet to be exploited - even as the Indians move up the BPO value chain and concentrate on non-accent related processes such as Software Engineering, Research (Financial, Medicine, etc), Product (e.g. Civil and Architectural) Design amongst others. Which leads us to todays questions. Qtn 7: How do we develop a national database on the wide-range of available ICT skill in Kenya - specifically which institution should be mandated to realise this, ensuring that such a database is kept upto date over the years? Qtn 8: What strategies should the country adopt to ensure a continuous supply of relevant and timely BPO-Specific skills? Please, lets have your comments flowing,dig yahjwalu starting now... walu. Encl: Synthesis 3 - HR Issues -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: lmarusoi(a)yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmarusoi%40yahoo.com

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Day 4 of 10- BPO Discussions, Govt Subsidies
by Sam Aguyo 06 Jun '09

06 Jun '09

Members I would note that surprisingly there is little participation of the practitioners. This could be strategic or otherwise. Their effective participation would give practical problems affecting the industry on the ground. Sometimes it is good to avoid generalization, for example a good comparison is between same environments – a goat with a goat, a sheep with a sheep and not a goat with an Elephant, the latter even though animals but totally different characteristics. We may want to compare with our Indian brothers; however the environments could be different. In this respect facts and figures would reveal more. I mean, the government provided this sort of incentive/subsidy targeting this for this period and the output was this. Based on this, it would be critical to narrow down to specifics that require intervention or subsidy, grants. As an example, the government should improve the environment within the EPZ by availing affordable and reliable bandwidth commensurate with the requirements of the players then invite the players to station there. In return, such incentive would attract a certain percentage of players of different configurations able to employ a certain number of people and such configurations can source jobs from such kinds of markets. This would add up! We should not loose focus, what would be the return on investment for such subsidy/incentive. These words i.e. subsidy/incentive have the propensity to read handouts. Sam Aguyo ________________________________ From: Walubengo J <jwalu(a)yahoo.com> To: sam aguyo <saguyo(a)yahoo.com> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 9:48:07 PM Subject: [kictanet] Day 4 of 10- BPO Discussions, Govt Subsidies -Dear Listers, I must thank all for your insights over the last few days. I like the challenge that asked whether we are "over-regulating" an emerging market as the "answer" to the question on if we have legal and regulatory gaps. Listers are encouraged to challenge and not just answer the questions. Other arising issues included where we want to play within the BPO Value Chain, the Impact of the Political (in-)stability, the need to map our Data Protection laws to those in the target markets are just but some of the highlights I picked - and by all means this is NOT exhaustive as am still reading through the contributions. But today we need to open the theme on Government subsidies. The Researchers found the S.Africa and India had elaborate subsidy provisions for the sector that included Tax Holidays and Exemptions, Investment Grants to BPO operators, Training Subsidies, One-stop shop for Corporate Company Registrations that could be 100% foreign owned, etc. The Researchers noted the unique Mauritius case which had similar incentives but eventually abolished most of them arguing that they were more beneficial to the Operators than to the Nation. On the Kenyan front - other than the not so succesfull Govt Bandwidth subsidies for Operators, very little in terms of incentives was available to BPO Operators. It was noted that the BPO operators had to be within the EPZ in order to enjoy the subsidies other EPZ corporates operates - the problem being that most BPO operaters exist outside the EPZ area. Whats more, BPO operators had to pay additional charges to be registered by the CCK (Regulator) and should be at least 20% locally owned. Qtn6: What incentives / subsidies should the government provide to BPO operators? What of the clause requiring 20% Local shareholding in foreign companies - is it prohibitive or helpful? Floor is open comments. walu. Encl: Synthesis 2:- Subsidies and Incentives

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Fw: [ISOC] ISOC launches IGF 2009 Ambassador Program
by alice munyua 06 Jun '09

06 Jun '09

For those who follow global internet governance policy processes, this could be a chance to attend the 4th IGF which will be held in Egypt in November. Best Alice ------Original Message------ From: Constance Bommelaer Sender: isoc-members-announce-bounces(a)elists.isoc.org To: isoc-members-announce(a)elists.isoc.org Subject: [ISOC] ISOC launches IGF 2009 Ambassador Program Sent: Jun 4, 2009 4:35 PM Dear all, Following the successful ISOC Ambassador program to the World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) in 2005, to the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Rio in 2007 and in Hyderabad in 2008, we are pleased to announce a call for expressions of interest to participate in the ISOC Ambassador program to the Internet Governance Forum meeting in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt, in November 2009. As part of the ISOC Internet Leaders program, the Ambassador program is designed to involve members in ISOC's global engagement activities while providing valuable expertise and know-how to the IGF meeting in Sharm El Sheikh. This year, ISOC is supporting not only the participation of first time Ambassadors, but also of returning Ambassadors to the Internet Governance Forum. The IGF 2009 meeting will take place Sunday 15 through Wednesday 18 November 2009. Interested individuals should be available to arrive no later than Saturday 14 November. Further details on ISOC's IGF 2009 Ambassador program can be found here: http://www.isoc.org/pubpolpillar/igfambassadors/ Read also about: ISOC Internet Leaders program: http://www.isoc.org/leaders/ Internet Governance Forum: http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ Best regards, Constance Bommelaer Senior Manager Strategic Global Engagement Internet Society (ISOC) +41 22 807 14 48 +33 6 62 17 31 86 http://www.isoc.org _______________________________________________ Isoc-members-announce mailing list Isoc-members-announce(a)elists.isoc.org http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/isoc-members-announce

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Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks
by Jotham Kilimo Mwale 05 Jun '09

05 Jun '09

Gilda, You are right when you say we must develop both domestic and international markets in tandem. But I think there is something to lose when the focus is too much on international market. We lose the opportunity to develop the domestic market, which, in my view, is one of the basic building block for the BPO sector in terms of capacity building/ experience which in turn will give confidence to the international market. When we talk of bad publicity for this country hampering the growth/attractiveness of the international BPO market, I believe a vibrant domestic BPO market will counter that (bad image) in a more convincing manner than asking the media to tone down on divisive politics, and will make the work easier for our international marketers. Also, I think that the move taken by some local companies to have their own in-house call/contact centres rather than outsource is a statement of 'no confidence' on the BPO operators. It has just made marketing Kenya as a BPO destination a little more difficult. Regards, Jotham --- On Thu, 6/4/09, godera(a)skyweb.co.ke <godera(a)skyweb.co.ke> wrote: From: godera(a)skyweb.co.ke <godera(a)skyweb.co.ke> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Day 2 of 10:-BPO discussions, Legal and Regulatory Frameworks To: jokilimo(a)yahoo.com Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 4:59 AM Peres, I fully agree with your sentiments. I especially am of the very strong opinion (and I stand stoned by some) that we must develop both domestic and international markets in tandem. Much as there has been a school of thought that we focus on domestic first, I beg to differ. We need to do so in tandem with the international market. What have we to lose? Gilda > > > External perception is absolutely critical in the race to obtain > international BPO contracts. No one wants to outsource to a country > which they 'percieve' as unstable, or which they percieve as > underdeveloped. The truth is that most executives in our source > markets for BPO work, in particular USA, percieve Africa as one > country with a myriad of ills: > > Somalia -Pirates > Congo - Wars > Darfur- kicking out the Aid organizations, starvation > Kenya ? Post Elections Violence > Nigeria ? 419 Scams > Zimbabwe ? Cholera and Inflation > Etc., etc. > > The best way to counter these perceptions is to have in-coming trade > delegations from our source markets, so they can see for themselves > what Kenya has to offer. > > W need to work on changing these negative perceptions of Kenya/Africa, > BUT at the same time build up our internal capacity. We cannot do one > without the other. Local outsourcing market needs to be developed in > tandem with the international. > > Peres > > Quoting Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack(a)gmail.com>: > > > Colleagues your comments are right, however we seemed to be more inclined > at > > external perceptions as opposed to building up internal capacity, must it > > take foreigners to show us our potential? > > > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:01 AM, munyiva ngea <munyivangea(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> Good morning, > >> > >> I agree with Peter about perception take Mauritius for example the > >> Board of Investment and the BPO Vendors strive to change the > >> perception of the country as a mere tourist attraction to an ICT Hub. > >> They invite prospective investors or clients to the country take them > >> to their lavish well equipped offices, which are probably located in > >> Ebene Cyber City the landing point of the Submarine cable so the > >> clients are assured of available internet infrastructure.After the > >> site visit the clients are then whisked away to have a fantastic > >> weekend on the beaches or on a boat. Simply put they show clients they > >> can do much more than provide BPO services they can offer quality of > >> life. > >> > >> To answer Question 3 i think without the government and local vendors > >> taking decisive steps to attract and retain investors and clients to > >> the country. Basically we need to give officials who are marketing the > >> country the funds to be able to invite the prospective investors and > >> clients to the country to show them we sufficient infrastructure and > >> Human resources. > >> > >> In order to build confidence in the country's capabilities we have to > >> have to EVIDENCE of these capabilities take India for example with its > >> National Skills Registry which is an industry initiative to ensure > >> that individuals employed by organizations have their background and > >> antecedents verified > >> (http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis/national-skills-regi-13182.html) > >> prospective clients need only to browse through the site to be assured > >> that the country has the Human resource capacity needed. What about > >> Kenya apart from various websites which allow individuals to upload > >> their CVs where can a prospective client get information on the > >> available agents, software developers and so on?? this information is > >> not available on various institutional websites (universities, > >> colleges) so how do we expect a client to actually believe that we are > >> capable if we are unable to show it (Perception again!!) > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards > >> Munyiva Ngea > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> kictanet mailing list > >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > >> > >> This message was sent to: otieno.barrack(a)gmail.com > >> Unsubscribe or change your options at > >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail… > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Barrack O. Otieno > > ISSEN CONSULTING > > Tel: > > +254721325277 > > +254733206359 > > http://projectdiscovery.or.ke > > To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones responsibility > > as a free man. > > Alan Paton, South Africa > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kictanet mailing list > kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet > > This message was sent to: godera(a)skyweb.co.ke > Unsubscribe or change your options at > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet This message was sent to: jokilimo(a)yahoo.com Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jokilimo%40yahoo.com

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